War is comming

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Court Jester, May 28, 2015.

  1. lurk@l0t

    [email protected] Active Member

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    I respect your opinions here mate, but isn't this what Hitler thought as well when he invaded Russia in 1942??
     
  2. Oldsoul

    Oldsoul New Member

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    Putin pretty much copycatted Hitler when he annexed Crimea

    I'm not advocating invading anyone personally. I'm predicting that any major conflict down the line will be China asserting control over eastern Russian territory.

    The militaristic autocratic government and banana republic economy is what dooms Russia.

    Analysis: Russia's Far East Turning Chinese
    http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=82969

    Like I say I find the militarist ultra nationalism of Chinese and Russian propaganda barbaric and very 19th century.
     
  3. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    the one flexing the military arms are the US and Nato, there is no doubt about this.

    the US will only go there when people ask they to go there, but we are hearing leave Okinawa instead.

    Have I misunderstood Japanese?

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt6DVzPeHxk[/youtube]

    they said No Tanks, did they not?
    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTeRcGbVxAc[/youtube]
     
  4. Oldsoul

    Oldsoul New Member

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    Russia Today????? You can't seriously watch that shite. It is state funded propaganda. No wonder you have a deluded understanding of Russia and Ukraine.

    Even its own journalists quit live on air because it is complete thrash.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)

    "RT has been called a propaganda outlet for the Russian government[9][10][11][12] and its foreign policy,[9][10][13][14][15][16][17][18][19] by former Russian officials,[20][21][22] and by news reporters,[23] including former RT reporters.[24][25][26] It has also been accused of spreading disinformation.[20][27][28][29][30] The United Kingdom media regulator Ofcom has threatened RT with sanctions because of repeated violations of its rules on impartiality.[31] The network states that it offers a Russian perspective on global events.[32]"
    ....

    "Pascal Bonnamour, the head of the European department of Reporters Without Borders, called the newly announced network "another step of the state to control information."[14] In 2009, Luke Harding (then the Moscow-based, Russia correspondent of The Guardian) described RT's advertising campaign in the United Kingdom as an "ambitious attempt to create a new post-Soviet global propaganda empire."[15] An article in the Christian Science Monitor wrote that RT reported on the good job Putin was doing in the world and next to nothing on things like the conflict in Chechnya or the murder of government critics.[154]

    Former KGB officer turned political refugee, Konstantin Preobrazhensky, criticized RT as "a part of the Russian industry of misinformation and manipulation".[20]
    "

    What's next zerohedge or globalresearch....do you read anything that the kremlin did not write a cheque for?
     
  5. Oldsoul

    Oldsoul New Member

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    For all the Russia Today lovers.... if you like Russia Today you'll love this.....


    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlvYGqi3Dbc[/youtube]



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin#Calculating_the_number_of_victims

    "Historians working after the Soviet Union's dissolution have estimated victim totals ranging from approximately 4 million to nearly 10 million, not including those who died in famines.[116][117][118] Russian writer Vadim Erlikman, for example, makes the following estimates: executions, 1.5 million; gulags, 5 million; deportations, 1.7 million out of 7.5 million deported; and POWs and German civilians, 1 million a total of about 9 million victims of repression.[119]

    Some have also included the deaths of 6 to 8 million people in the 19321933 famine among the victims of Stalin's repression. This categorization is controversial however, as historians differ as to whether the famine was a deliberate part of the campaign of repression against kulaks and others,[61][120][121][122][123] or simply an unintended consequence of the struggle over forced collectivization.[77][124][125]

    Accordingly, if famine victims are included, a minimum of around 10 million deaths6 million from famine and 4 million from other causesare attributable to the regime,[126] with a number of recent historians suggesting a likely total of around 20 million, citing much higher victim totals from executions, Gulag camps, deportations and other causes.[127][128][129][130][131][132][133] Adding 68 million famine victims to Erlikman's estimates above, for example, would yield a total of between 15 and 17 million victims. Researcher Robert Conquest, meanwhile, has revised his original estimate of up to 30 million victims down to 20 million.[134] In his most recent edition of The Great Terror (2007), Conquest states that while exact numbers may never be known with complete certainty, the various terror campaigns launched by the Soviet government claimed no fewer than 15 million lives.[135] RJ Rummel maintains that the earlier higher victim total estimates are correct, although he includes those killed by the Soviet government in other Eastern European countries as well.[136][137]

    "

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P789bKVNGw[/youtube]


    Russian Government Seeks PR Firm to Make Stalin Seem Nice
    http://www.wired.com/2009/11/next-step-in-russian-pr-blitz-rehabilitate-stalin/


    " "I asked him 'Do you want us to say that Stalin was not such a bad guy?' And he said 'Well, I know it will be difficult.' I said 'So, you want history to be rewritten?' And he said 'Yes, in a way'.
    "
     
  6. lurk@l0t

    [email protected] Active Member

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    @Oldsoul:
    Who came out on top during the 1969 battle on the Russia/China border between the two communist armies?
     
  7. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXTXVMdMgBU[/youtube]

    anyone that appear on RT is real sheet :lol: here is the broken leg full of sh**t tokin
     
  8. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    @Oldsoul, I thought you can understand Japanese, you don't need to know from where your are.
     
  9. Oldsoul

    Oldsoul New Member

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    Vietnam was a Russian military client and has a centuries long hostility to China. In 1979 the Chinese attacked Vietnam with 200,000 troops leaving 50,000 dead.

    If Russia in any way seriously supports China in a dispute involving Vietnamese claims to reefs then Vietnam will turn its back on Russia. This is happening now

    Vietnam abandons Russian arms as payback over oil project: report
    http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20140519000011&cid=1101

    "Vietnam has abandoned Russia-made weapons in a new round of defence tenders as payback for Russia's aborting of oil and gas development activities in the South China Sea, reports the Elite Reference, a subsidiary of the party-run China Youth Daily."

    Ukraine has set the precedent for China to militarily intervene at a time of its choosing to 'protect' the huge number of Chinese civilians who have via soft colonisation occupied the Russian side of the Sino-Russian border. The demographics in the Chinese -Russian border areas are incredible. A vast Chinese population looks towards a sparsely occupied and incompetently governed land over the border that was once part of the Chinese empire.

    The key issue in the Amur river area is not meters of land though. It is water which is a major issue for development in that region of Northern China.

    As mentioned, Russia Today is pure kremlin funded propaganda and its reporting on the likes of John Kerry is just noise...but also completely irrelevant to the diplomatic disaster Russia finds itself in, the loss of a military customer and somewhat ally Vietnam, to gain only a feigned alliance with an ultimately hostile China which is poised to reduce the territory of Russia by 40%.

    @[email protected]
    The 1969 conflict is somewhat irrelevant. When China exerts hard power in Siberia, they will already be advancing through Russian territory that has a vast Chinese population and will entirely support and cheer the 'protective' force. Millions of Chinese are flowing through that border and in effect taking over what was Russian Siberia right now China will cite a need to 'protect' its civilians giving the example of the excuse of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

    Now that Vietnam is shorn from Russia all the Chinese need to do to have secured their rear is negotiate a settlement on the reefs with Vietnam and the Philippines. You can expect North Korea to either abandon Russia or collapse. That is your maker for the Chinese to engage fully in Siberia.

    The current Russian conventional forces are dependent on an entirely failed conscription system. Intelligence indicates that morale in the Russian military regarding 'volunteering, let alone dying in Ukraine is extraordinarily low. Corruption, criminality and brutality against conscripts means it is barely capable of fighting against infinitely weaker forces. It will struggle to deal with Ukrainian forces fighting the invasion and the EU and US have shown remarkable patience with Russia in not responding to Ukrainian requests for arms. However given the kind of childish bellicose rhetoric from Moscow it is likely they ultimately will. At that point Russia will be staging a re-enactment of their crushing defeat in Afghanistan. It has no hope against the units the Chinese have professionalised. The current Chinese Russian force dispositions at the border are 70,000 Russian Vs 250000 Chinese with the numbers likely to shift even further in Chinas favour. Of course the Chinese military in Russian territory will be volunteers on vacation from the Chinese military and 'rebels'. Did you know that China is operating a recently acquired tank factory on Russian territory in Siberia? China will not even have to go through the charade of moving armour over the border, just tank crews.

    All the propaganda on Russia Today and via Russian internet trolls won't change that a bit.

    What Russia is ensuring at the moment

    a)Another neighbouring population - that of Ukraine will detest Russia for generations as it is detested in the Baltics, Poland etc.
    b)They will loose Vietnam as a friendly nation if they show even moderate support for China over these reefs
    c)No western nation will ever again be prepared to engage Russia as a potential partner, sell it arms or support it in a Russian-Chinese dispute.

    China is currently plucking the Russian chicken and is in no rush to sit down to eat.

    @Alor (standard Russian propaganda internet noise)

    As regards John Kerry, as I have said, you may rest assured that the Chinese have discussed the matter with the US state department which will support their actions in Siberia diplomatically at the UN along with France and the UK.

    The disputes over these reefs will not evolve into a bigger conflict, all the players are laying down their cards carefully, only Russia has no idea what the game actually is.


    When empires collapse and contract as the USSR did - it is not a process that ends in 20 years. Most of Russian territory is in fact a colonial patchwork strung together by Catherine (she of the horse).

    How long do you think Chechnya will voluntarily stay neutral once the Kremlin is being humiliated by the Chinese? The likes of the Chechen SOBR "Terek" are the only conventional forces Russia has that can actually fight.

    Goodbye Russia. You were never much loved by those who knew you. Russia Today and Russian internet propaganda if anything only serves to illustrate why that is the case.
     
  10. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    you may know about Russia or Soviet, I am a Chinese. so the China's perspective you have no knowledge at all.

    you may put down your views, but it has nothing to do with China :)

    Russia Today presented real journalistic views for all to see, I do not necessary agree with them, but at least they offer another point of view, as compared to the so call un-common virtually repeated programmed robotic scrip direct from the owners alike. ( I never want to watch their jokes.)
     
  11. Oldsoul

    Oldsoul New Member

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    LOL. I can only suggest that you stop watching state propaganda from Russia.

    How do you feel about the current wave of court cases related to shadow banking and the Chinese economy?

    If this is all about China+Russia Vs the west why do the Vietnamese despise China?


    2014 Vietnam anti-China protests

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vietnam_anti-China_protests

    Chinese Russian border

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_NGRMa8idI[/youtube]

    How do you think the state sponsored propaganda of Russia and China from 1960 or 1970 would stand up now if you were looking for truth?

    What did you think of the PLA heavy armour exercises for winter warfare on the Russian border earlier in this thread?

    When you oligarchy starts priming the Chinese media with stories about Russians beating up Chinese small businessmen you will know you are being primed.

    How do you feel about Chinese officials living in exile while continuing in exercising power?

    Operation Skynet: China's anti-corruption campaign goes international as Beijing reaches out to uncover officials fled abroad



    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...o-uncover-officials-fled-abroad-10142310.html

    "The government has repeatedly stated that no corrupt officials are safe from its hunt for both "tigers" (high-ranking individuals, such as Communist Party chiefs) and "flies" (low-rankers such as local government workers or teachers)."


    Do you think Chinese consumers will buy gold as a safe haven if the stock markers in China crash from their currently insane PE levels?
     
  12. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I like the catching part, yes the gambling business has gone badly since the announcement, this is happening across the entire region. the result shows up in the casinos book. :)

    Many in the region would love to hate Chinese, same for Viet or Philippinas since the Chinese has been more successful locally, and this has nothing to do with what China does.

    If you are asking the people queuing to Open stocks accounts in China, 30% up a day! who can resist that kind of gains?
    people inside do not see the bubble, they can even sell gold to buy stocks.

    People do not move against the herds, but the Chinese government do buy gold, its a tradition...Ben is right about gold. :lol:

    Usually the US bribed the Governments and bully the Chinese people outside of China, the US see this as Chinese sphere of influence but China never in the past tried to protect the same Chinese speaking people the way Russian protect the Russian speaking people. The Chinese outside speaks the local languages you see.

    The way politic of the divide and conquered works, but never every time. Which neighbours are always peaceful with one another?, we live in a real world. Neighbours hates each other, the far away neighbour sell weapons to your next door, there you have it.

    The big far away neighbour has $400+ millions worth of boats up for grabs, free so long as it is used to aim at China :lol: just need to find takers.
     
  13. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...r-jets-drones-west-counter-chinese-aggression

    when Viet stop buying from Russia, they have to find from the US or Nato.

    when Viet choose to be the enemy of China, they make their cities nuclear targets, when war break out, then US is not staying there, the cities can be flatten.

    One country can seek the backing from a Nuclear power to pick a fight with another nuclear power, but when the N boms landed, it would have no reaction time. Death had been chosen, death is what will be gotten.

    When EU choose to buy the defense shield, Russia would target them with N boms, that is the only respond from them. Else how do you deter others and say you are a nuclear power?

    the End Game, people loves to test this, particularly the mutans.
     
  14. lurk@l0t

    [email protected] Active Member

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    Do you have any links which support your claims that China has its own tank factory (i.e. producing tanks for the Chinese army) inside Siberia? Is this not simply a case of a Russian factory which is building tanks exclusively for a contract with China? i.e Russia is selling these tanks to China? I would certainly think that the Russians are curently 100% in control of the factory...

    Regarding the numbers - 250k Chinese vs 70k Russians ... i believe the Korean war admirably demonstrated the fact that military manpower is of very little consequence in a conventional war (not so in a guerilla war).
    This was again amply demonstrated in the Gulf I war in 1990 when Sadam Hussein's 1 million man army (the largest in the world at the time) was obliterated and easily overrun by the US forces with their vastly superior air and sea power!

    I guess the question is who (China or Russia) possesses the superior technology in air and sea power? Especially in air power...
    your comments on this?
     
  15. El Dorado

    El Dorado Member

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    Looks like Oldsoul steal living in 80-th 'coldwar' with Russia... :lol: ...

    try just to listen and understand an other/alternative view/opinion of the situation, maybe you are wrong... but if you wake up each morning with anti Chinese/Russian/(other) thought already in your mind, it would not help :/

    ... keep calm, and move on ;)
     
  16. Oldsoul

    Oldsoul New Member

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    Change in Russia's Far East: China's Growing Interests in Siberia
    http://www.spiegel.de/international...-s-growing-interests-in-siberia-a-761033.html

    "Chinese investors have already bought a former tank factory in Chita, where they are now producing trucks. They already control the markets in Russian border towns, where they are the richest private business owners. "China invests more in the Russian Far East than our own government does," writes the Moscow newspaper Niezawisimaja Gazieta."

    Will China Colonize And Incorporate Siberia? Analysis
    http://www.eurasiareview.com/28062012-will-china-colonize-and-incorporate-siberia-analysis/

    "The Chinese have effectively avoided paying taxes and managed to take control of several companies that have become de facto monopolies in the food supply. In the Russian city of Blagoveshchensk on the Amur River, a 1755-mile-long waterway separating Russia and China, the factory producing Kvass, a popular Russian beverage made out of rye bread, is now owned by Li Lihua, a Chinese businesswoman. He Wenan, a Chinese entrepreneur, has specialized in the construction of shopping centers, along with running the most expensive hotels in town. In Chita, Chinese investors have bought a former tank factory and converted it into a truck manufacturing plant."

    As regards technology, I suggest you review the links to the PLA winter warfare exercises I posted earlier in the thread.

    Please review this and note the considerable directed input by foreign contributors to the rapid advance of the Chinese militaries land warfare capabilities.

    The Evolution Of Modern Chinese Tanks
    http://21stcenturyasianarmsrace.com/2015/03/16/the-evolution-of-modern-chinese-tanks/

    Of particular note is that
    "Last year China was the only country in the world to unveil a brand new main battle tank (MBT). First teased as a scale model in arms shows and then on defense conglomerate Norinco's website, the MBT 3000 was displayed to the public during the 2014 Zuhai Air Show."
    ........................
    "The brief US-China dalliance had a considerable impact on the PLA. Not only were two dozen Sikorsky Blackhawk's delivered to the air force, a US-style 105mm gun suddenly appeared on Type 59 and Type 69 tanks."
    ............................
    "Judging by the picture above, the MBT 3000 comes with a large power plant that can't possibly originate in China or even Ukraine. There is speculation it runs on a 1,500 turbo diesel engine either imported from Germany or reversed engineered from a German design.

    Exactly who can afford battalions of MBT 3000's remains to be seen. Whether the PLA eventually uses it is another question. But it's apparent that Chinese armor has finally arrived on the world stage.
    "

    Ultra modern armour too expensive for potential military hardware clients to purchase is of little value in a pacific naval engagement. It is very useful, in fact vital in a campaign in Siberia as is well illustrated by the PLA heavy armour winter warfare drills conducted which I linked to earlier in this thread.

    In terms of Naval technology Moscow is still struggling to deal with decommissioning it's prior naval reactors and in fact was driven to commission warships from France.

    The Chinese Navy Vs Russian Navy is however fairly pointless in Siberia.

    As regards air defence the Chinese have more than adequate resources to deal with the Russian air threat which is far behind that of the western powers. Indeed there are again strong indicators in this area that the Chinese military is not strategically designed for war with e.g the USA but as a force shaped to confront Moscow. The most effective Chinese military developments have focused on missile technology and land warfare - particularly special forces and establishing professionalised elements of the PLA. Moscow has never achieved effective reform of its conventional land military or military-industrial complex which is in essence as dysfunctional and unfit for purpose as it was in the latter years of the USSR. Should China have developed a vast and competent navy it could be assumed the Chinese were indeed of the intention to face off the Americans. This is not the case. The Chinese military is tuned to dismember the Russian military and indeed conducts most large scale exercises in recent years in areas with a climate and topography which approximate those found on the Russian side of the Sino-Russian border.



    The slow preparation of east Russia for Chinese annexation is the key. The realities of water resources, population, energy and demographics mean that the slow annexation will result in any hard power being exercised in Russian territory that has effectively already been entirely colonised by China and in which any Chinese forces will be received and supported as a 'protective force'.

    Russia has already in effect begun loosing territory in the east to China a process which will accelerate and deepen. Undoubtedly the Chinese would wish to win their strategic goal of the eastern 40% of Russia without firing a shot. They may well accomplish this and if so and they benefit a large populations quality of life and make effective use of the territory I say good luck to them. They are however clearly shaped to use hard force if Russia seeks to oppose their objective. Recent Russian exercises on their side of the border unfortunately indicate this may be necessary for the Chinese. The Chinese have a demographic window of about 20 years to accomplish their objective and each year that passes places the odds further in their favour. It is highly unlikely given the failure of Putin's government to effect economic reforms and a reversion to an autocratic militarist fascist Russia that in 20 years the Chinese forces will have much of merit to oppose them. Even in the event that a dramatic collapse of the CCP were to occur the same events would ultimately transpire.

    As regards my commenting on ostensibly vitriolic, misleading and deceptive anti-western propaganda threads that I do not start, I have no inclination to cease injecting some facts and reality into them. I am sure that the Chinese strategists would very much like Russia to believe that they are in fact truly mindlessly obsessed with hating 'the west' as Russia is.

    The reef incident has already served its intended purpose of removing Vietnam as a Russian ally.

    The Russian had in the past only two naval bases of scale outside Russia. One was in Vietnam. The other is in Syria.

    Ukraine has been at every level a disaster for Russia. Even 'victory' will do little more than create yet another population in a neighbouring territory that intergenerationaly loathes Russia as do the Baltics and Poland.It means that the west will never supply arms to Russia again (see the debacle of the two carriers commissioned by Moscow from France) and will be entirely accommodating of Chinas strategic goals in east Russia. Chinas worst nightmare was that Russia would evolve into a full member of the NATO treaty. That will now never happen. Russia has shown it breaks treaties and is in effect unwilling to do anything other than regress instead of evolve.The Chinese may well quote Putin when it comes to intervening in another nations sovereign territory to 'protect' their population. In fact the Chinese constitution obliges them to.

    China will eat Russia.
     
  17. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Good reading for you in the NY Times just lately OS

     
  18. Oldsoul

    Oldsoul New Member

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    The irony being Moscow is sponsoring neo-Nazi groups across Europe as long as they will sign up to support Putin

    Here is the list of attendees and speeches in St .Petersberg

    [​IMG]
    Source:


    Agenda
    http://realpatriot.ru/en/reports/

    "10.30 First plenary session
    1.Birykov Fyodor Vladimirovich, Rodina party (Russia)
    2.Fyore Roberto. Chairman of APF, Chairman of the party "the New Force" (Italy)
    3.Krylov Konstantin Anatolyevich. Editor-in-chief of the Nationalism Questions magazine (Russia)
    4.Jared Taylor. Writer, author of the book "White Identity" (USA)
    5.Voigt Udo. APF the European Parliament deputy from NDPG (Germany)
    6.Synadinos Eleferios of APF, European Parliament deputy (Greece)
    7.Georgios Epitideios. APF European Parliament deputy (Greece)
    "



    Russia Reaches Out to the Wingnuts of the World

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...reaches-out-to-the-wingnuts-of-the-world.html

    "Alluding to reports that Rogozin helped French leader Marine Le Pen receive a multimillion-dollar loan from a Russian bank, Verkhovsky said, "Most probably, in order to undermine the European Union, Russia is willing to finance more ultra-right parties like Golden Dawn." Indeed, Le Pen was nowhere to be seen in St. Petersburg, and other successful leaders of the rising right in Europe were absent as well. This confab was for losers who can feel, in Russia, like they've found people who really understand and sympathize with them."
    ....................

    ""Unlike opposition activists, ultra-right groups have no problems with the authorities," says Olga Bychkova, the St. Petersburg correspondent for Echo of Moscow radio.
    Early Sunday afternoon about 30 to 40 anti-fascist activists, with faces covered, marched in protest against the event and briefly blocked the city's main avenue, Nevsky Prospect. The protesters drummed loudly and chanted slogans. Minutes later, police units began to grab activists."



    Birds of a feather....flocking together in Putins fascist nest. Scum the lot of them.
     
  19. lurk@l0t

    [email protected] Active Member

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    @oldsoul:
    Mate - I'm assuming you're not of Russian descent? :lol:
     
  20. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    the Russian SU aircraft are more than a match and superior to almost all USA planes-- the new F35 is a billion dollar lemon.
     

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