Wait Until the End of May...

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Eureka Moments, Apr 26, 2020.

  1. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Quite easily.

    We need to import even more workers and make the administrative process in doing that easier. We also need to make it available to every day Australians, not just businesses. Families should be able to sponsor overseas workers as domestics and pay them with accomodation and $$ instead of just award wages.
     
  2. Oddjob

    Oddjob Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    True but I suspect a workforce will develop to "pick fruit or labour" in the rural areas. There's a small but growing group from the younger generation (inc young families) who have decided a simpler, debt free life is more attractive and packed up and left the big smoke in their van and do work here and there to pay the way.

    Same goes for the "grey nomads" who (some) do work along the way for extra cash to ease / lengthen the journey. With some retirees super / savings getting hit by market events, I would not be surprised to see rural producers advertising on the grey nomads web pages / forums / FB pages looking for seasonal workers and offering free park up, water and power as part of the deal. Usually the offer of a free site, power and water is enough to get some nomads on site in exchange for some work around the farm. Throw in some $ and I suspect you'll see many more head to rural areas to supplement their nomadic lifestyle.
     
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  3. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Perceived low rung jobs. At least cleaning toilets provides value, I would argue that a lot of middle-management and executive positions provide far less benefit to society.
     
  4. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    The reality today is there is more free labor then there are needed jobs. Which is great! as that's the point of innovation/efficiency, so people have more free time. But most people don't seem to know what to do with that free time and want to keep working/told what to do. Government then feel they need to create more well paying jobs to keep people happy, so those people take the well paying jobs. This then leaves a gap in the low paying jobs, so government feel they need to increase immigration of cheap labor. Over time those people then want higher paying jobs, so government feel they need to create more job.... and the loop continues. But the jobs are being forcefully created and no longer lead to innovation/efficiency.

    This is why we have to stop relying on the perpetual growth model that relies on a constant gradient of rich and poor. We need to let the system balance and let the market determine what jobs are desired and what people are really willing to pay.

    One thing the government should really do is allow a couple to combine their taxable income (something you have already mentioned). I think if done you will find more families going back to the traditional way of life where one parent stays home while the other does paid work.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
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  5. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I was washing the car the other day and heard the young family behind where we live talking and what not. They've been occupying their two kids - it would drive me nuts as we always farmed our kids out or had other kids over to keep them company as well as sport etc - but anyway, I was thinking about what you said regarding a UBI and your thoughts on modern schools and thought that paying a parent to stay at home to look after/home school their kid could be easily justified. It's not a UBI because it's rewarding productive work, nor is it an MMT job guarantee because it's not a gateway job to the private sector, but it makes more sense to me than filling classrooms with kids that don't want to be there, and separating parents from children who would rather spend time with each other but are forced apart because of financial burdens. Parents could buy existing distance education programs from private/government providers, theres'a wealth of free material also available and I'm sure private mentoring providers would also be available for special group sessions if there is a common interest among a few families in a topic or field where an expert could come and visit or the kids could do a day out together.

    Maybe the scheme could also work in a way where the parent can nominate a home schooler on their behalf to work at home with their kids etc. It just needs to be flexible, and as you and I know, it won't cost taxpayers 1c.
     
  6. Stoic Phoenix

    Stoic Phoenix Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Please mate, they haven't been on $18 per hour for like 8+ years.

    Absolute base rate is near $21

    Here is an excerpt from the current modern agreement which verifies what I said that some of them are on $55+ per hour on some penalty rates.

    MA.png
     
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  7. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    You can list all the BS desk monkey PDFs you want, but on the ground in the real world those figures mean piss all. I can assure you most cleaners do not earn that much.

    And it's pointless saying what some might earn, all that matters is what most earn.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
  8. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    We never employed cleaners, but when we worked out that our 18/19yo waitress was getting in excess of $45/hr to work on a public holiday, she never got any work on a public holiday again unless we were short staffed.
     
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  9. Stoic Phoenix

    Stoic Phoenix Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    @leo25 - my last job working for someone else was as Operations Manager for the largest privately owned cleaning company in Australia.
    I looked after the submission of timesheets in Qld for a few hundred cleaners so I think I speak from a position of authority on this subject.
    Regardless of what you think correctly paid cleaners get paid the facts disagree with your opinion.
     
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  10. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    It sounds like you run an above board business. Though many don't and resort to creative accounting. e.g put someone on the book for working 8hrs at $45, but have them work 10 hrs. So in reality they are getting $36 per hour.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
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  11. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I also know from a more direct first hand experience that many cleaning job get away with paying below award rates. About 6 years ago i thought ill do some cleaning work to get some extra cash, as my primary work at that time was a bit slow (i too heard they got paid well). It turns out many clearing jobs offered either about $18 per hour with no benefits (for an adult) or tried to get you to work for less then $15 per hour cash. Also it was a fixed rate, so working the weekends didn't pay you any more. That's the real world for the majority my friend.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
  12. Timmy88

    Timmy88 Member Silver Stacker

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    Leo25 you are spot on, in the real world cleaners get exploited hard, but so do many others, almost always new Australians.

    I spoke to a two south American cleaners earlier in the year at the tail end of final clean on a big union construction job, (I was installing some extra last minute stainless handrails) both the guy and girl where absolutely shocked when I told them the going rate for a union boilermaker. They were both on $20 per hour, no penalty rates, no site allowance, no super, no incolink, no coinvest, might I add they both worked there ass off.

    The nickname toward the end of a big construction job is when all the 'blow-ins' come in and work over what was suppose to be a lock down weekend and or RDO, do you think they get the same fair EBA rates the rest of the guys do.

    Timmy
     
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  13. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    @leo25, was your cleaning job with a small business or a large company. I'd say that a cleaner is more likely to get ripped off by a small business than a large business.

    It's amazing the difference in pay between unionised worksites and non-unionised, especially when you consider that union members don't do any work.
     
  14. Eureka Moments

    Eureka Moments Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Just need to correct the bolded sentence there because it's fkn garbage. 85% of the staff I work with are Union members, and 85% of them work fkn hard because if we don't we get less hours or rostered hours that don't have penalty rates attached.

    If we didn't work hard thete would be way more deaths in the residential personal care sector. Disclosure: I get 15% loading for the entire shift if showering or wiping someone's arse as part of the notmal duties. Is that fair or should it be only for the actual time I'm doing a "hands on" task. No danger money for high infection risk, which I think all frontline staff in all sectors should get.

    If it weren't for Unions the bottom 20% of us would be slaves. A MEAL IS NOT PROPER INCOME, OFFER ME THAT AND YOU CAN ALL WIPE YOUR OWN ARSES AND CLEAN THE FKN TOILETS AFTERWARDS.
     
  15. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    It was a medium size business. They did cleaning for apartment complexes, the cleaning company was hired by a large strata company. It gets much worse on the very small business end, where many cleaning jobs are done by people not legally allowed to work in this country. For that reason they accept very low pay.
     
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  16. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    @Eureka Moments my comment was tongue in cheek to some extent, but also correct in others.

    We’ve all got our own experiences which mould our views of the world.
     
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  17. Stoic Phoenix

    Stoic Phoenix Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    You applied for a couple of cleaning gigs and then use words like "many, and majority" ?
    I think you will find its the minority.
    There are two different awards in place for cleaning and if you or anyone works for one that doesn't use one that's no ones fault but their own as there will always be cleaning jobs available with companies that do pay correctly so you can get the $50 penalty rate which was my initial point to begin with.
    I know many that only did weekends and were pulling in $630+ pre tax per weekend so don't say they cant be or are not paid adequately.
     
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  18. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    It's also what i heard from many people doing cleaning jobs too, so not just from what i experienced.

    You have little experience in the industry as a whole, as working behind a desk give you zero experience on the ground. So i can say they are underpaid as much as you can say they are well paid.

    Next you will be telling everyone that 7-Eleven staff actually get paid well because the award PDF say they should.
     
  19. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    That's a quick way to irritate most doctors. That's another industry where they are constantly getting short paid. It's common for hospital workers to not get properly paid for forced overtime work, thus making their true hourly rate fall below the award rate.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
  20. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Hospital workers? That’s a broad category.

    Nurses get good remuneration packages, doctors have a protected industry, hospital admin workers have awesome pay scales considering it requires no talent, as far as the rest go I wouldn’t know. Don’t care either.

    This thread is just a slanging match. Each of us tossing generalisations at each other.

    I’m out.
     
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