Ukraine Crisis Intensifies, Israel Violence Spreads

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Golden78, Jul 26, 2014.

  1. Skyrocket

    Skyrocket Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2014
    Messages:
    5,686
    Likes Received:
    631
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Melbourne

    lucky luke, I agree that Israel has plans for the extinction of Palestine and it's people! Check out the map of Israel and Palestine in 1967 and now.

    You would think that after the holocaust the Jewish people of Israel should know better about what it's like for extinction of people!!! Instead it seems like they are looking for paybacks. The problem is they are trying to payback (extinguish) the wrong people because the Palestine people played NO part in the holocaust!!!
     
  2. BlackSheep

    BlackSheep Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    994
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Queensland
    ... wrong thread
     
  3. hawkeye

    hawkeye New Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,147
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    I'm not so sure about this. Do they really want the threat of Palestine to be gone completely? Certainly there is a lot of rhetoric in that direction, but their actions don't fully support it imo. There is always the case that there are extremist nutcases in any country and any government, but government's are generally pretty pragmatic in what they ultimately end up doing. The pragmatists usually get their way and they do what is in the best interests of the government. Does the government really want the threat gone? Won't that just mean they have to dream up some new threat? Is it a case that by slowly pushing back the borders they are appeasing the nutcases while keeping the general interests of the government in mind, which is that it is a good thing for there to be a threat, albeit one that isn't too threatening?
     
  4. hawkeye

    hawkeye New Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,147
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    The US Govt can only dream of having a domestic threat like Israel does. Instead they have to come up with all kinds of nonsense to try and justify their domestic policies.

    All Israel has to do is maintain the current situation. Make sure the Palestinians can't lift themselves up, create a situation that is likely to induce the occasional bouts of violence against Israeli citizens and you have the perfect domestic terror by which you can justify a massive military security industrial complex and any amount of control and crackdown domestic policies. America must like it too for all the weapons sales for their own MI complex.
     
  5. scrooged

    scrooged New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2014
    Messages:
    1,204
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Melbs

    Oh dear.
     
  6. AngloSaxon

    AngloSaxon Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,863
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Sydney
    The number of Gazans executing for demonstrating against Hamas has now risen to 10, according to a UK broadcast.
     
  7. Stark

    Stark Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    1,843
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Europe
    Sorry for interrupting with going back to Ukraine.

    Interesting opinion:
    http://www.arabianmoney.net/gold-silver/2014/08/06/vladimir-putin-threatens-to-tip-over-the-global-house-of-cards/

    Looks like August was always "interesting" month in recent Russian history:
    26 August 1999 start of 2nd Chechen War

    12 August 2000 Kursk submarine disaster

    August 2008 Russian-Georgian war

    What will this August bring?

    There is a chance they will intervene as for protecting the civilians. Operation with name like "Eternal Freedom" or something like in US style...
    Drop bombs, democracy will be built on ashes...
     
  8. hawkeye

    hawkeye New Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,147
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Can you elaborate?
     
  9. systematic

    systematic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    6,834
    Likes Received:
    298
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Its about business selling weapons to cannon fodder. Oversupply for a psychopathic demand ...
     
  10. CriticalSilver

    CriticalSilver New Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,725
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    This made me laugh and I was struck with the thought that it was on purpose that Gandhi didn't use the plural pronoun when he implored:

    And Jesus even said not to worry about others until one gets themselves straightened out":
    Yet all these abstract conceptualisations of groupings, rules, regulations, discriminations of this and that, all add to the beam in our eye and impedes one from seeing clearly. Perhaps one just needs to release all these delusional attachments that ultimately impede one's vision...

    Releasing all those concepts of collectivism and associated dogma isn't easy though. Maybe that's where faith comes into play...
    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tExb99T6gLw[/youtube]
     
  11. systematic

    systematic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    6,834
    Likes Received:
    298
    Trophy Points:
    83
    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GodOiBp1mLo[/youtube]
    Published on Oct 12, 2013 Nuclear Shake-Up. Two Top US Nuke Generals Fired.
     
  12. fosinator

    fosinator Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Australia
    There's a couple of things I cant get my head around in the israel hamas conflict:

    Ceasefires seem to be broken with hamas firing rockets.

    What would happen if Palestinians got their wish and wiped all of israel off the map?Would they be like "now thats done we can be peace loving people"?

    Demands like "release around 125 prisoners" and things like: "Hamas's armed wing, the Ezzedine al-Qassam Brigades, warned just hours before the truce expired that fighting would resume if their demands were not met, first and foremost to open a sea port to the blockaded Palestinian enclave." sound like things terrorists would say.

    Everybody is like "Israel are the bad guys" and Im not an expert on the situation but what are peoples thoughts on the above scenario that Hamas gets their wish and wipes Israel and everyone there off the map?What happens next?

    For the record I'm not pro either side and I think the deaths of innocents is terrible.I couldnt bear to see my innocent children/family caught up in it
    which is where alot of hatred obviously comes from.
    Sad Situation.
     
  13. Skyrocket

    Skyrocket Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2014
    Messages:
    5,686
    Likes Received:
    631
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Whatever happens there Israel will always be in the wrong because all that land belongs to Palestine. England had NO right to give that land to Israel (see Balfour Declaration) because it was not England's land to give away. And that questionable crap that Israel always speaks of that is in their holy bible that that land is theirs is crap. But even if it were true do you have any idea what the world would look like today if everyone/anyone can say that this is my ANCIENT ancestors homeland so now you all HAVE to leave!! It's ludicrous! Israel does not belong there and whatever happens there it will always be Israel fault because that land does not belong to them. It belongs to Palestine.
     
  14. fosinator

    fosinator Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Australia
    So Israel cant say its our land but palestine can say its ours so leave? Im not trying to stir the pot, just trying to make a little sense out of it.
    Your saying its palestines land not israels but how did you come to that conclusion?Im genuinely interested :)
     
  15. Skyrocket

    Skyrocket Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2014
    Messages:
    5,686
    Likes Received:
    631
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Simple history lesson. Read the Balfour Declaration -

    Balfour Declaration

    "The Balfour Declaration (dated 2 November 1917) was a letter from the United Kingdom's Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Baron Rothschild (Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild), a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland.

    His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
     
  16. fosinator

    fosinator Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Australia
    So Skyrocket, rather than "Israel does not belong there", what would be an accepable solution for both sides in your view?
     
  17. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2011
    Messages:
    7,423
    Likes Received:
    1,290
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Pulau Alor ;)
    Israel: "Terrorists Have Violated The Cease-Fire"

    Hamas Cease our Fire!!!
     
  18. Skyrocket

    Skyrocket Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2014
    Messages:
    5,686
    Likes Received:
    631
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Palestine people want all Israel/Jews to leave (to go back to where they came from, England, Europe, ect) and give that land back to them which is rightfully theirs, or at least give the land back that was outlined in the UN 1947 borders of Israel and Palestine. My view would be the latter.

    See Israel Palestine map timeline below and note how much land Israel has been stealing and continues to steal from Palestine. Look at how much land they stole/lost! Do you blame Palestines for being upset and wanting to rid them off their land any way they can?? The map proves Israel is trying to extinguish Palestine people off the land. You would have thought that Jewish people of all people should know better then to do this to people (extinguish them) considering the holocaust. And consider Palestine people played NO part in the holocaust.



    http://www.google.com.au/imgres?img...iact=rc&uact=3&dur=489&page=1&start=0&ndsp=15
     
  19. AngloSaxon

    AngloSaxon Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,863
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Sydney
    So, Skyrocket, what do you say to the aspirations of the Jewish people to return to their homeland for thousands of years. What do you say that they have lived continuously there (in small numbers) since the larger number of Jewish people were expelled by the Romans/Babylonians then later again by the Turks/Arabs.

    Have you read Ivanhoe, an 1820 novel by great Scottish writer Sir Walter Scott? Some of the main characters are Jewish and lament how they cannot return to Israel- that sentiment didn't begin then, it was just a constant theme through the ages. What do you say that the 1884 travel diary of Mark Twain, The Inncoents Abroad, spoke of the Holy Land as effectively a desolate wasteland.

    What do you say that the Jewish people living in Europe commenced returning to Israel/Palestine in the 1880s and large numbers of Arabs emmigrated out of Egypt and elsewhere into the area specifically to take advantage of the employment offered by the Jewish who had begun greening the desert.

    History does not commence in 2000, in 1973, 1967 or 1948. What do you say to that.

    You don't like the Bible/Torah, that is clear. The historical record that it is, as well as a religious work, is not disputed.

    Just saying "it's crap" is not an argument, it's a tantrum.

    The movement that "there was no Jewish history in Palestine" started with the corrupt Yasser Arafat, yet every time the Israelis dig for archeological items showing Jewish (and not Arab) items inside the ruins of the Temple that the Al-Aqsa Mosque is built on, the Arabs scream blue murder. Why? Because it demonstrates the land has links to the Jews, and despite all they Arabs destroy, it always will.
     
  20. Skyrocket

    Skyrocket Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2014
    Messages:
    5,686
    Likes Received:
    631
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Firstly I don't trust or believe anything that is written in any Bible. All Bibles cannot ALL be true = FACT. They are all hand me down stories from 1,000's of years ago and we all know what happens when stories are handed down from person to person. They get distorted from the truth at the very least and downright lies and not true at the worst = FACT. That's why I said what is in their Bible is crap. Unless of coarse that you or anyone else can prove that what is written in that Bible (which is just a book) or any other for that matter is true?? No you or anyone else cannot prove that. Besides who would believe that something is true JUST because an ancient book full of hand me down stories says it's true?? Is that logical thinking??

    To the rest of your questions I'll say what I just said before - "And that questionable crap that Israel always speaks of that is in their holy bible that that land is theirs is crap. But even if it were true do you have any idea what the world would look like today if everyone/anyone can say that this is my ANCIENT ancestors homeland so now you all HAVE to leave!! It's ludicrous!"

    I suggest you stop thinking about the Jewish people in this situation and start thinking about the Palestine people because it is their land and whatever happens in that land is Israel's fault because it's not their land.

    State of Israel = mass murderers and terrorist state.
     

Share This Page