TPP Dirty Deals - Selling out Australia

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by ozcopper, Apr 13, 2015.

  1. ozcopper

    ozcopper Administrator Staff Member

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    Link: http://www.news.com.au/finance/econ...p-12-nation-pact/story-e6frflo9-1227301790583
     
  2. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    All treaties have been done this way. The TPP is nothing special.
     
  3. FlashInThePan

    FlashInThePan Member

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    One of the specific roles of government is to protect the people from the activity's of the corporation. To be the gatekeeper, as our representatives, working for the sole benefit of the people who they serve with all there functions funded by us by in good faith.

    I am not aware government can even speak let alone act unless they are representing the will of the people. If they have been in deep negotiations for 10 years in secrecy, then that would be a self incriminating act?

    Not only Why, but How the secrecy?
     
  4. errol43

    errol43 New Member Silver Stacker

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    Will Corporate law override State and Federal laws? If so, God help us all.

    Strangely enough. a lot of US politicians are speaking out against. Meanwhile the reds and the blues here in Australia will sell out for thirty pieces of silver.

    Regards Errol 43
     
  5. errol43

    errol43 New Member Silver Stacker

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    No other treaty is as bad as this one IMO.

    Regards Errol 43
     
  6. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    As I've said before, I'm hugely in favour of corporations being able to protect their (properly acquired) property rights and override sovereign a**hole politicians trying to steal them. Finally may be able to create a real check on immoral use of political power. Excepting stupid intellectual property laws, no example that the GetUp crowd has posted about the "scary" draft text regarding the ability for corporations to sue governments seems to be a problem. Their accusations are more wind than substance.

    Saying that, I would be worried that the proposed system for adjudicating any such corporate-government disputes has good governance, accountability and transparency.
     
  7. tozak

    tozak Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I don't trust GetUp but then again I trust the Politicians even less
     
  8. Shaddam IV

    Shaddam IV Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Why is intellectual property different from physical property? Intellectual property can cost a corporation far more to acquire than physical property. It also pays a lot of people's wages.
     
  9. Shaddam IV

    Shaddam IV Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Bill Shorten was a board member of Getup.org.au until 2006. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Shorten

    It is a left wing political organisation and it's largest single funding source is the CFMEU. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/union-gave-12m-to-getup/story-e6frg6nf-1225953474319

    Getup! accepted a 1.12 million dollar donation from the CFMEU and then went on an attack campaign against Tony Abbott. http://www.smh.com.au/national/get-up-funded-antiabbott-ad-with-unions-1m-gift-20101112-17r7j.html

    Getup! Is a Labor/Union political organisation masquerading as a benign advocacy group.

    So if you don't trust politicians you should not trust Getup!

     
  10. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Don't get wrong. It's potentially valuable and, people being people, hate to lose value from something they worked for. But unlike physical property:
    (A) You can't prevent someone from also coming up with the same idea independently
    (B) Ideas are replicable without loss - hence you still have (and own) the ideas in your head even after I have acquired them.

    In the context of the TPP I am mostly worried about ours laws on pharmaceuticals, media etc becoming harsher like those the USA tried to push onto us as part of the US FTA. The TPP should be reducing barriers to trade, not erecting bigger ones via cronyist IP laws.
     
  11. smk762

    smk762 Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Point 2 seems to tie in with the "rampant piracy" our nation is accused of. TPP is rumoured to criminalise this Australian pastime.
    As the assignor of some IP currently being commercialised, I understand the reasons why people would like it protected. That said, I have a huge respect for the ethic of Tesla and others who seek to improve humanity with their ideas without constraining the benefit to be had through pricing it out of the reach of the population. If ideas are not shared, innovation is stifled as secrets are locked away. If I don't protect my IP, investors are not interested. If I publish it on the internet freely, investors are still those who get a higher return than I, but the consumer has more access due to competition.

    Sad truth is that those who profit most from ideas are generally not the ones who thought it up. They might get a slice, but unless they had capital to make it happen, venture capitalists are the ones who hit the jackpot. They are also the ones who are most concerned with protecting IP.

    IP law always makes me think it is another crime created under the jurisdiction of the thought police.
     
  12. Shaddam IV

    Shaddam IV Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    As a small business owner who has had our designs and our images of those designs from our website stolen by a Chinese company and now not only are substandard copies of our product being sold all over the world, our own photos of the genuine product are being used to sell their cheap sh!t. I can tell you that intellectual property theft is not just something that hurts large corporations. It hurts small Australian businesses and their staff.
     
  13. errol43

    errol43 New Member Silver Stacker

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    RNT...If we live in a democracy, lets have a vote on it...Let the debate begin...Where do the red and blue team stand on the issue? What about the bail in legislation? Nay a word in the MSM.

    Large Corporations don't care about small time venture capitalists. Some banks in Europe have already stated that they don't want small depositors such as small businesses. Why? When you can get money from Reserve banks and gamble on derivatives, why bother.

    Regards Errol 43
     
  14. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    We don't live in a democracy (thank christ) we live in a representative democracy.
     
  15. SpacePete

    SpacePete Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    These "partnership" agreements seem to be leading towards a meta-governmental legal and regulatory framework.
     
  16. Shaddam IV

    Shaddam IV Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    We have already had this in Australia for years. It's called the ACTU.
     
  17. FlashInThePan

    FlashInThePan Member

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  18. SpacePete

    SpacePete Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    What I am alluding to here is the possibility of an emergent system of control that exists above individual governments and far beyond the power of voting citizens to influence.

    So it's not that the TPP is intentionally secretive, but that citizens of individual nations are no longer even relevant.

    With vast, abundant numbers of people, it may be that we are becoming little more than transitory components in a larger system with about as much influence and rights as an individual blood cell, and held in as little regard. Collective organization of citizens is viewed almost like a cancer, a threat that provokes an immediate attack, an immune response.

    And what is the end game? Eventually, with increases in the sophistication of automation and autonomous, intelligent control systems, humans may simply become an annoyance, an outdated component that no longer serves a purpose, and will be eliminated at the whim of the great machine.




    ...
     
  19. millededge

    millededge Active Member

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    ditto

    Isn't GetUp Soros funded? Definitely leftist.
     
  20. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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