it's all good mate! i love this place - it gives me heaps of laughs i'll admit. Hopefully you guys find some of the posts I make of interest, inbetween all the poking and laughs... :lol:
Course everyone is entitled to their opinion, the main thing is all opinions are heard (the good and the bad) so that people can make an informed decision on where they stand, plus as posters we can get our opinions corrected if there is anything wrong with them. Whats annoyed me is the whole one sidedness of it all (the max kiesers, peter schiffs, the maloneys) they have their points but its way to biased for obvious reasons. If there is going to be deflation and there is a chance to loose money people need to know and be able to choose if they do want to loose their money (temporarily) or get out and get back in again. Whether its the right choice or not people should be able to choose, not be lead by the pied piper of gold and go screaming into the river ... its not even certain we might get a deflationary scenario with the potential that the ECB *MIGHT* (tho not likey) get involved in this whole shamozzle as lender of last resort. We will just wait and see Its just seeing those galahs on youtube screaming half truths is so dam annoying.
I love it how **science** is not about 'faith' but about imperical evidence.... yet even today when I speak to a member of the 'Big Bang Church' and ask for imperical evidence, they share their faith with me... Ha! Therory which is spread by many scientists which then gets lots of attention suddenly evolves into fact. Ok, since we are talking weird and totally wild and hard to believe theories... what about the ancient Jewish idea that (Based on Hebrew (not English translation) of Genesis 1:1) that we are God's second go... his first creation bummed out big time and he destroyed them, and tried again. Of course, we stuffed up again and so he sent His Son to fix it once and for all.... anyway, interesting stuff. Explains the ancient earth and universe while also explaining very modern history of humanity (based on Hebrew chronology) - that is, this new round of creation being only 7000 years young. Back on track now, yep that was very weird to most and most have never even heard of that one...... going to bed now! Remember, we are all friends on here! Shiny.
See i myself do believe in god and i can not for the life of me see how scientists who study this can not see that they will never understand why something is only how. So understanding the big bang is understanding how the universe came to be but why it came to be well "i put that in gods hands". Also when you look at the beauty of nature and the math behind them you can't help but think some supreme intelligence created all of it , HOWEVER my scientific mind (math major at uni) looks at things analytically, so sometimes i am at lockerheads with myself :/ , so 7 days god created the world, eve from the rib bone of adam , to appease my analytical side i tell myself its just a metaphor of something that was hard to describe those centuries back ... Facts are that Galaxies fly away from each other (proven by red shift) when you view galaxies in all directions (because the universe is expanding), so if your flying away from something and you reverse the math then at some point in the past it must have all been focused at a central point which is the singularity that no one understands. Through modern science we can predict what happend a few seconds after the big bang we can even see its effects (physically) at cern in the LHC. Scientists believe that the theory of quantum gravity (when they finally work it out) will help them see what actually happened at the period the big bang happened and HOW it might have happened. Now given all this i dont know why scientists dont believe in god or why believing in science is mutually exclusive from beleving in god, if anything it should reinforce gods existance cause nothing as beautiful as the rules that govern the universe and what we physically see (including the gold and silver that we keep under our beds) could just be random, understanding the how is a scientists job and how the universe began is well in the realm of science , so we shouldn't scoff at theories such as the big bang cause there is proof of the big bang in our universe right now via many phenomena. However answering the why our universe was created or why we are here is not scientists job, its the job of faith. And no the big bang is a *theory* it isn't fact, fact would be when they say the big bang *law* , such as law of thermodynamics you never heard anyone say the big bang law cause it isnt a fact. Anyone that says its a fact "or has evolved into a fact" misunderstands the word *theory* . OK its 12 so im going to bed too ....
Its called logic. If god greated us, who created god? If god has alwasy existed, then the universe could always have existed. Therefore, god is not required to explain something we dont yet understand (or maybe ever will).
Yeah i worked on a proof once that went, if god can do anything then he can create a stone thats heavier then he can carry then if there is something he cant carry how can he be the all powerful omniscient one if there is something he cant do.It basically proved the impossibility of god existing ... Logically yeah it makes sense and it annoys me but i accept it, however if you look at studies of black holes or quantum mechanics everything and i mean EVERYTHING in that realm defies logic. How can something be at two places at once, how can something change its state simply by you look at it, how can 4 billion solar masses be compressed into an infinitely small point, yet these things really do exist, we use the properties of things that logically dont make sense in quantum mechanics to make chips that we use everyday in our mobiles. Scientists understand the properties of these weird things BUT do not understand how they work fundamentally. Not yet anyway . i chalk it up to misunderstanding or better yet LACK of understanding, now im open to the idea that in some REALLY distant future someone proves without a doubt that there may be no god, but until that happens i seen enough things happen in this world and know how cool and surprisingly structured underlying laws of the world are that it convinces me that even though it doesn't make logical sense that there is a god, its all to beautiful and ordered to to be just a fluke, just look at the piece of gold in your hand and dont think about how it came to be but the RULES that govern how its formed, chemically and physically. So until someone proves otherwise ima head to my place of worship and say 'yo' to god But thats me AND not convincing anyone otherwise, every man to his own. i guess thats why they call it faith, you just believe it even though SO many things don't make sense about it ...
Hahaha Golden, so you agree that we are nowhere near running out of silver....and certainly not in 9 years, as was disingenuously suggested by Yip in the thread's title. I agree, and it is certain, that silver will become more expensive to mine/refine in the future. I guess the question is...Why will it be more expensive? Are increased production costs due to higher prices of other commodities consumed in mining processes to blame? (oil, gas, steel etc...) Is the increased cost of labor to blame? Is it because all of the "low hanging fruit," as it were, has been picked? These considerations, and their underlying assumptions, are the real questions at hand in this discussion. The "we're gonna run out of silver" talk is just trolling that's best left for the rubbish bin....although Yip seems to be having a laugh or two at the monster he's created here hahaha.
:lol: if it weren't for these monsters how boring would it be :lol: I commend yip for creating something worth debating even though we know its all hogwash ON YA YKY
Guys, calm down...if silver gets a bit short then "god" will just make us some more...(lol) http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-19242-thank-god-for-precious-metals.html Oh, the simplicity of life!
The 2020 figure for running out of silver came from the US geological survey and is based on mine-able reserves for the current price. I imagine the figures have changed since silver has rallied over the last couple of years.
That is the problem with the human mind. 1. We need to put an explanation against everything. The simplist idea will stick. Physics is not simple, organised religion is. 2. People will fight tooth and nail for their current belief and ignore those who dont agree (confirmation bias) So yes, silver will run out in 9 years (simple idea) and I dont beleive otherwise because some random guy on Youtube said so (confirmation bias)
Perhaps not believing in God is proof of his existence. The biggest laugh I get from the atheists is when they say "If there's a god then why is their so much suffering in the world?" Ummm... maybe because an intellectually-snobbish nitwit like you doesn't deserve to be in the best bits of the universe that god created! Interesting that quite a lot of cosmologists/astrophysicists end up religious even if they don't start that way. The reductionist scientists who are active in disciplines that explicity avoid looking at the big picture are often the ones who celebrate their atheism. They say God tests us all. USD40s down to the low 30s. More proof of his existence!
I agree there, and it relates to this whole argument, its easier to say silver will run out in 9 years cause everyone on youtube is saying so then thinking about different solutions, processes and mechanisms that we can put in place to mining the "harder to get" silver so that it to becomes cheap in the long run. Much easier to say , nope, we cant get it, so it will run out :lol: As for believing in the supreme being, i actually believe it more because of my studies in science, maths etc. There is so much we dont understand but we accept it and use it in day to day life (in science), so i see no difference in believing in a supreme being until its proven otherwise. 'How' can be answered by science (even how the universe began, how the big bang started, how gold was made and formed) but 'Why' the universe began can't. To me this is squarely where gods place is. Answering 'whys' in day to day (why do i feel sad, why are things so hard) help some of us get through life and if answering the why's involve god and involving god makes it easier to deal with it can't be all bad Personally answering "why i feel sad" with a "because the chemical reaction of this hormone and that hormone causes the brain to feel sad" isn't going to make anyone feel better :lol: .. but if saying (as lame as it sounds) "god gives us our good days and our bad and this is just a bad day" helps, then believing in god can't be bad and does have its place. Whats funny is that the study of how the universe began was revolutionised by a physicist called Alan Guth where funnily enough he calls his theory not "the big bang" per se but calls it the "inflation" theory (which is an improvement to just the big bang). They found that the background radiation of the universe is very evenly distributed throughout the universe, which is considered weird because if you imagine a grenade full of paint going bang (or any normal form of explosion) the paint is very unevenly distributed around the blast site (splatters everywhere). In the case of the universe things are very uniformed so if you were to take the grenade analogy it would mean that the paint cleanly and evenly paints the wall, no gaps nothing (which can't happen from a normal bang that we currently understand). What i found interesting was when he explain the inflation theory he could not do it by exploding the paint grenade like he did when he demonstrated the normal big bang theory, he had to do it by getting a painter to actually evenly paint the wall because the inflation was to complicated to be done by a random process like something simply exploding. The painter had to start from the center and moving outward, ie he actually needed a man to paint the wall evenly otherwise there would be no way he could physically show how his theory worked. I found it interesting because even though the math of how the inflation occurred must have been rock solid, he still couldn't make it happen in the real world without an intelligent human to do the painting for him. Again of course we could chalk it up to not yet understanding the full process of inflation theory (which is very true) , though i just found it interesting ... To get back on topic, 9 years of silver na ... we will build space ships, have large nets that can collect silver dust and bring it back to earth ... wooohoooo never ending silver .... prices will drop, make sure in your wills that you leave for your grand kids, it says to sell sliver before year 2300 were ships with big silver grabbing nets will be invented resulting in silver harvesting from outter space JP morgan shorts will be done for ....
not much besides the fact that silver is rapidly changing from being an industrial metal to its age old role of being a monetary metal. Currently the monetary demand for silver comprised 30% of total demand. This proportion has been rising very rapidly over the last couple of years and will continue to do so
If the laws that govern the universe were changed slightly any which way, then it would not be possible for us to exist. This would mean that God had no choice in the matter, which would rule out his omnipotence, and what is a god if he is not all powerful? The simple explanation of why we are lucky to live in this habitable world is because if it wasn't habitable, we wouldn't be here to witness it. What in your mind constitutes a 'fact'? Are you saying evolution theory isn't a fact? Are you saying germ theory isn't a fact? As far as I see it, you have two options: You either say that theories are facts until they are proven wrong, or you say that a fact is a truth independant of theory. In the former, accepted theories such as the big bang theory constitute fact, whereas in the latter nothing can be known at all - anything correctly labelled as 'truth' would be a coincidence. You say the law of thermodynamics is a fact, but this can be easily disproven in the latter charge: In order to come such conclusions you must have made an observation of the world through your senses, and/or arrived at logical conclusions - but if 'facts' are truths independent to you, then they are also quite possibly inaccessible through your senses and logic. Thus you cannot say that the law of thermodynamics is fact, because to say so would require a universal understanding. 'God' fits into that same latter category. He is inaccessible through your senses and logic, and must be taken on 'faith' alone, in other words a coincidental access of the truth. He is necessarily 'universal' in knowledge (omniscient) and power (omnipotent). He cannot be understood by me or you logically: If god is omnipotent, can god lift a rock bigger than he can lift? If god is the totality of universality, is he also non-existent? If god is omniscient and omnipotent, and has always been 'as is', then can god understand how it is to be lacking knowledge, foresight or power? Etc. These two routes can be summed up as follows: Either you try to make sense of the world, or you decide that it is not worthwhile as it is not possible. Interesting, both rule out god, for the former says that god is incompatible with logical understanding, and the latter says that god is beyond our understanding and therefore anyone who claims to know the mind of god, know the characteristics of god, know that god wanted to write a book for advanced apes and got angry over an apple, or even know the very existence of god, is either a liar or a fool. But let's go with the former idea, that truths are knowable through observation. How then can we speak of God, something which has not and cannot be empirically observed? Though the application of logic. The examples cited previously show that god himself is logically impossible. But what caused the universe?: What caused the universe? God What caused God? God was not caused, God is 'as is' If god is 'as is', then so can the universe be 'as is' Apply Occam's Razor and remove god from the argument, the universe is 'as is' The burden of proof lies upon the claimnant. If someone claims that god exists, then it is they who must provide evidence to substantiate their claims. Otherwise the Tooth Fairy and unicorns may just as well exist too. Should we have faith in those? Of course not, the reason you accord 'faith' to god is because of what you have been taught or encouraged to believe in your society. If you were born in India, you'd probably have faith in Hindu gods. If you were born in ancient Egypt you might have believed in Osiris, Horus and Isis. When you fill up the gaps of knowledge with 'faith', then it becomes more a lot more difficult to dig it out again - hence the respect which is granted by the majority of people to looney religious ideologies like when the Pope says to Africans 'AIDS is bad, but not quite as bad as condoms'. That's the kind of dangerous risk you run by assuming faith is a virtue in lieu of knowledge. Science can answer the 'why' just as it can answer the 'how'. For instance if I starve myself I'll start getting stomach pains, and I understand why that happens through facts. Why do natural disasters occur? Again, we understand why through facts. Why do people suffer? Well if you put your hand near that flame, of course it might burn you. Why is there suffering? Because we don't have all the facts yet, and instead religions are formed to explain the world and propose things like wearing a mandatory cloth bag over your head and say it's for their wellbeing. Why are we here? It's an incomprehensible question, like how hot is blue? Adding god does nothing to solve the 'whys' and gives god a rather repugnant personality. Why does god exist? Don't know Why did god create us? Because he wanted playthings to love and praise him eternally Why does god allow suffering? He's testing us Why does god allow people to experience hell? Because his desire to be loved and praised eternally exceeded that of his concerns for the possibility of his playthings experiencing hell Why does god love us? Because we satisfy his jealous desire to be praised eternally Why does god cause natural disasters which kill millions of innocent people? God works in mysterious ways Why does god work in mysterious ways? Don't know
