The morality of debt

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by mmm....shiney!, Oct 24, 2012.

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  1. DanDee

    DanDee Active Member Silver Stacker

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    I'm ya Huckleberry. :D
    Debt is moral.
    Guilt is moral.
    Debt is guilt.
    Guilt is Debt. To understand this, you need to have a good mental attitude, you must be patient, you must be a mental patient.
    Here ends the lesson, Go in peace.
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Sorry, been away from this thread - but will respond to those addressed to myself specifically or ones worthy of comment.

    Has me up until the bolded point.

    We establish the amoral nature of debt, then insist debt is moral because of the context in which it's done. Moral/Immoral is irrelevant here. The reason why you're doing it should be the question.

    I would state the most common reason(s) people say it's moral is because other people do it too, or you're 'forced' by a corrupt system.

    Fact of the matter is, you still have a choice at the end of the day and it's the choice that you will justify as a moral or immoral act in the context of your environment.

    There's many times through history where people have assumed specific actions are moral in that particular moment that in hindsight would have been considered anything but.

    Just remember that you always have a choice and need to take full responsibility for your choice.

    The context of this thread feels a lot like an attempt to excuse decisions made for use of debt under the guise of debt being a 'moral' absolute.

    It's worth repeating that when it's all said and done, your choices are where the context of morality lies.

    This is neither a condemnation or supporting statement on the ethics of debt from me per say, but rather pointing out what seems to be getting lost in the white noise here.

    Character assassination is par for the course around here. I will not respond to leading questions in as much as I won't even bother repeating what I've said dozens and hundreds of times (and subsequently ignored) on these pages over the years.

    I cannot recall the number of times I've posted independant data or informed critique and had it ignored outright here in favour of personal rhetoric, so I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the provision of proof/information with naysayers is completely irrelevent - it's ignored anyway.

    As for the line of questioning referring to Reno, note above I did answer it - glad to see that was completely ignored too?

    Go back to your character assassination dialogue anyway, it's refreshing. :rolleyes:

    An assumption that's irrelevant.

    It would be like stating an apple is not immoral.

    Dangerous thinking!

    :D

    I think (depending on who you speak with), saving is the function of fiscal pygmies and idiots who are too stupid to learn how to leverage debt.



    Ultimately, the thread was little more than an exercise in polarising the line in the sand here on community ethics and values.

    Debtors vs savers isn't a new arguement at all, but it definitely is one which shows where your personal investment bias lies.

    But it IS very interesting to note how people will justify, validate and viciously defend their ideals on their financial and economic beliefs.


    I would say I am saddened by the path that the SS community has taken, but then again I am not overly surprised either.
     
  3. hawkeye

    hawkeye New Member Silver Stacker

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  4. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Irrelevent because you can't understand the difference between an apple which is an inanimate object, and debt which is a relationship between two or more parties. Is violence irrelevent to you auspm. According to lucky luke's flawed logic, the word violence is amoral, it is only the act of violence that is moral or immoral.

    You cannot make a distinction between a word and the action or relationship it defines. Without the action or relationship the word does not exist. And once again auspm, you have managed to conclude in your own mind the purpose of this thread. You bleat constantly about how every one who disagrees with you is a "sheeple" and attacks you personally not your ideas. This is the typical classic quote where you - by stating what you believe the motive of the OP to be - personally attack.

    You, as many believe on this forum (except your blind lemmings) are indeed a hypocrite.

    @lovey, I will address your rebuttal when I have the energy, suffice to say, using your argument, everything in the world can be said to be amoral.
     
  5. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Which is why I deliberately chose violence as on one of my examples. In sport there is the victor and the vanquished. Depending upon your level of understanding of the sport, it may be moral or immoral to you based upon how far you can distance the immorality of violence from the spectacle you are witnessing.

    Is sex amoral to you lovey? Is conversation amoral? Are these good or bad?

    That's the wonder of objective truths, they do exist naturally and are shared the world over. They don't need someone's thought processes or experiences (subjectivity) to come into existence. Morality is universal, it is objective because morality flows naturally from people and requires no coercion to exist. What you consider to be moral today lovey, will still be considered to be moral tomorrow even if you were to die overnight and your subjective consciousness were to disappear. A subjective view of morality states that true reality does not exists independent of human perception.

    BUT unfortunately for many different reasons, and because humans are not one homogenous collective, like The Borg, there will be those struggle to naturally feel morality and do require some coercion.

    I have already argued that point many times and am yet to read a logical counter view. Chairs are inanimate objects. Apples are inanimate objects. Guns are inanimate objects. Debt is a relationship. A debate is a relationship. A conversation is a relationship.

    Like I've been trying to explain to lucky luke (and others), it is not just a tool. And once again, for you lucky luke I will explain:

    You have sex with someone - you don't have gun with them.

    You debate someone - you don't apple someone.

    You enter into debt - you don't have a clue do you?

    @lovey, agree with the current banking system, and as I posted earlier in response to bordsilver's very good point, I am yet to get back to that topic. I'm struggling trying to get the opposition past the first page, which to me is a concept as basic as a natural truth, but so important it forms the cornerstone of my theory.
     
  6. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Then don't post your comment in the first place if you don't want to continue debating it. It's like taking a shot at someone and then expecting them not to retaliate.
     
  7. DanDee

    DanDee Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Who really cares? moral, immoral, amoral, makes no difference, debt is part of society. no debt, no society. Everybody owes, Everybody incurs some debt, or causes some debt almost every day of their lives. Isn't debt what you owe somebody or what somebody owes you? Isn't your weekly wage ( if you work) a debt that your employer owes you? A promise to pay you at the end of the week for work you have done? Or is this a thread about charging interest on a debt being moral or immoral?
     
  8. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Me.
     
  9. DanDee

    DanDee Active Member Silver Stacker

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    why?
     
  10. RetardedMonkey

    RetardedMonkey Active Member Silver Stacker

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    If debt is moral, and I don't have debt, does that make me immoral?
     
  11. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    No more so than if you are not having sex at the moment. But if you are having sex at the moment, can we see some pictures? :p
     
  12. DanDee

    DanDee Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Yes, because you claim to have no debt. Everyone has debt.
     
  13. RetardedMonkey

    RetardedMonkey Active Member Silver Stacker

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    You mean I inherited the debt from my employer as salary because they're giving me money created from debt by some bank in some country?
     
  14. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  15. DanDee

    DanDee Active Member Silver Stacker

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    No.
     
  16. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Thank you to dandee and RM, this thread is moving again. My appreciation.
     
  17. RetardedMonkey

    RetardedMonkey Active Member Silver Stacker

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    You're welcome.

    My head hurts now - apparently I am in debt!
     
  18. DanDee

    DanDee Active Member Silver Stacker

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  19. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  20. DanDee

    DanDee Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Everyone's in debt. whether or not you pay your debt would be a moral issue.
     
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