Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by mmm....shiney!, Feb 25, 2015.

  1. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    even in Africa, they have solar
    Indonesia have man powered generations lol
    sure they have newer version of gen, with reduced noise
    I had tiny gen that can last 2.5 hrs before top up...years ago
     
  2. Timmy88

    Timmy88 Active Member Silver Stacker

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    I don't mind a bit of tongue and cheek jokes

    But seriously.

    I live by 'two is one and one is none' philosophy. Especially for anything critical or semi critical, be at the farm or in the city where I am trapped at the minute. (If you get a flat tyre can you fix it without going to the tyre shop)

    For me I'm a planner. I hate running around looking for spare parts in a last minute pinch.

    Generators/small engines are a great thing for me and give me huge flexibility and cost effective running costs. It may not be for all, but for me its just as valuable as gold.

    I have a large solar set up at the farm, but if I don't use the power it goes back to the grid and I get paid nothing literally.

    Problem with power as we all know is storage there is not true solution and Tesla is best described as the title of this thread.

    One thing I am currently looking at is Nickel Iron (Ni-FE) Batteries, super long life, you just need to change the electrolyte's every 10-12 years, which is super easy do it yourself, and do water checks every few months.

    Timmy
     
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  3. sgbuyer

    sgbuyer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I've been reading about making hydrogen using solar. Not sure how feasible or cost effective but it's definitely green. Fuel cells are also not cheap.

    For any green solution to work in the long term, there must be sufficient resources to power the entire world. Just as there is sufficient silicon and silver (hopefully) to build solar farms in every country.

    https://mercomindia.com/australian-researchers-create-green-hydrogen/
     
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  4. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    I think it’s about utilising and storing excess power from renewables when demand is low.

    It’s not cost effective at the moment. Maybe in time it may be. And that’s a BIG maybe. But if it happens it’ll be huge. Maybe.
     
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  5. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    once China reach their Russian gas capacity and mix, thousands of nuclear generators will be built, same would be for India as well. 3 billions consumers would be using nuclear in the near future + SEA countries
     
  6. BiGs

    BiGs Active Member

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    Didn't all the US car manufacturers get bailouts? and wasn't Tesla the only one (or maybe the first one) to pay it back? I've been following Elon since the PAypal sell and Tesla from their first roadster, I'm only kicking myself I didn't buy shares when they listed or any of the years thereafter when I was really keen for what they were doing. Yeah their stock price is most likely in a bubble but the whole stock market has hit all time highs, while the US has been officially in a recession. The fakesters are starting to show.
     
  7. JohnnyBravo300

    JohnnyBravo300 Well-Known Member

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    Why feed back to the grid for free when you could just get more battery storage?
    The new lithium solar batteries are much better than the lead acids that I have.
    My son got a lithium, now one battery replaces all the lead acids he was using before, runs his whole cabin, appliances, well and water heater.
    Only disadvantage I believe is the lithium can freeze so they are installed inside.....and the price of course isnt very cheap.
    I prefer the lead acids because I'd rather have the batts outside.
     
  8. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Tesla Battery day turned out to be a big flunk.
     
  9. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    Flat you reckon? :p
     
  10. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I think all the low to medium hanging fruit have been achieved. But new innovations will take much more research, development and time. Where Tesla is at in the battery technology cycle, I dont think most major car companies or major battery manufactueres will think it would be hard to catch up, some might think they are ahead.

    Look at VW, BMW, GM, Hyundai or Toyota are all indivdually spending more money on EV research than Tesla, but they are not building many EV cars.... Most people think it is because "they can't" since they dont have the technology when in reality it is "they don't" see a market yet. Just consider that all make 500,000 to over 900,000 cars a months in normal times

    Most EV revolution fans in general or Tesla fans don't seem to understand companies like VW, BMW, GM, Hyundai or Toyota don't make mass model cars to lose money.

    All of them easily spend hundreds of millions dollars on single concepts, design and trials on EV cars, most do multiple concepts concurrently. None see an issue spending few billions on proof of concept model to the market, knowing they won't break even. Simple reason, with current technology they can't make cars at X amount that masses will buy (masses will be different to each manufacturer ie Hyundai and BMW dont target the same "masses").

    Also who cares about million mile battery, it is just hype, no one wants to drive a car for million miles!

    If I had a choice I would rather have 100,000 mile battery that cost $3,000 or 200,000 mile battery that cost $5,000 to swap out, than a 1,000,000 mile battery that cost $15,000

    Finally some of the manufacturers might not even want to make batteries and just buy them from many battery companies that make them.

    As for self driving it is very similar story, some car companies are developing their own, some are partnerning with others or might just buy from any of the companies that are developing them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
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  11. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    :confused: P/E ratio 1137... Stupid is as stupid does.

    tesla meme.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
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  12. BiGs

    BiGs Active Member

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    People are stupid. Most mum and dad investors don't look at anything but the company. Since the 10:1 change its made it even worse. It's the same mentality as to why people are piling into XRP again. They see the price as cheap with no attribution to market cap (let alone earnings) and buy buy buy thinking they are getting a cheap stock.

    That said, Tesla is a tech company, not a car company. Just keep that in mind when you compare production of vehicles as this isn't their business model core output product. They are getting into a good IP position to dominate the next 100 years or more in many sectors. And yeah there is plenty of hype too.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
  13. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    What unique tech do they have which they can sell to other companies? I can't see anything they have which can scale at high profit margins in order to justify their stock price.

    Also just to list some misconceptions people have. They don't have any unique battery, battery management, electric motor, autonomous driving...
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
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  14. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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  15. goldpelican

    goldpelican Administrator Staff Member

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    The stock of booming at the moment because of S&P inclusion - fund managers need to buy it to add to their index funds.
     
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  16. sgbuyer

    sgbuyer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Not saying it's not worth a punt, same like bitcoin, anything can be pumped, tulips included, but what makes Tesla different from other hardware tech companies like Intel, Cisco and IBM that also had "IP".
     
  17. goldpelican

    goldpelican Administrator Staff Member

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    [laughs in TSLA]
     
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  18. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    You’d probably have your T3 by now. ;)
     
  19. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Can't wait for the documentary; "Tesla - The greatest scam in human history"

    imagine a company that makes its money from selling BS government carbon credits, yet they pollute more then any other car company :D
     
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  20. goldpelican

    goldpelican Administrator Staff Member

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    I actually cancelled the reservation for that - the money went into the stock instead. Was a good move. Not a Tslanaire yet - plenty of them created in late 2020 though. I'm going to call it that Tesla will at some point become the most valuable US stock by market cap, currently held by Apple at $2.3T - so that's a threefold upside. That requires TSLA to hit $2600 at Apple's current price of $130. It will probably take another stock split though to achieve it. Is it rational based on Tesla's current financials? No. But is it rational for Bitcoin to hit $40,000? Also no. With the S&P inclusion, the available supply of TSLA stock to be traded shrank dramatically, and the crowd follows performance - people will continue to throw money at buying TSLA at these current levels, especially if there's a $2000pp stimulus likely given the Senate just flipped blue. Robinhood and WSB bros will help keep driving the price.

    If you've heard of Cathie Wood from ARK Invest, she was mocked in 2018 for setting a (pre split) price target of $4000 for TSLA. At yesterday's close of $867, the equivalent is $4337 per share, exceeding her target. She's becoming a bit of a legend for picking disruptive stocks that generate huge returns, to the point where it's becoming self-fulfilling for stocks that ARK takes a position in for their ETFs. Genomic stocks are what she sees driving returns for the next 5 years in her funds, so stocks like CRISPR Technologies and Editas are booming, in part because the stake that ARKG ETF took in each stock is considered a Midas touch. So I've taken positions in ARKG, CRSP and EDIT. I personally think CRSP and EDIT will outperform TSLA this year in part because of the ARK angle, but I'm not so convinced that I would give up my TSLA position as well.
     

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