Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by mmm....shiney!, Feb 25, 2015.

  1. Silverthorn

    Silverthorn Well-Known Member

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    It's actually an indication of how much they want Tesla in China before Europe. Financing is also part of the deal.
     
  2. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Define "surprising amount"? Unless you live in North Sydney, there are not that many. For every 1000 cars that pass me i might see 1 Tesla. If in North Sydney that number might be 1 in every 200.
     
  3. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    What indication? Chinese companies are setting up battery factories in Europe.
     
  4. Silverthorn

    Silverthorn Well-Known Member

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    Should make a good car for the family if you're still interested @goldpelican .


    https://electrek.co/2018/10/07/tesla-model-3-lowest-probability-of-injury-nhtsa/
     
  5. SlyGuy

    SlyGuy Active Member

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    You can't call Tesla or Uber "start up" when they've been around for years, Tesla has been publicly traded for years, and both have been implemented and branded nearly worldwide. Again, just look at Tesla's market cap... or Uber's when it IPOs next year. A start up is a privately held company or sometimes a small cap (less than 2B by definition) business that is still growing and developing its product or service... before it duplicates that on a massive scale and expands to many markets. Tesla and Uber are both way past that point and have been for years.

    ...Businesses have predictable phases:
    1) Synthesis (aka start up) phase with planning, product or service testing, gaining funding, developing organization, and developing branding. Nearly all are in debt and require venture capital funding while they develop their plans and bring in materials or talent. Most of these are privately held companies (sometimes small cap <2B) that we haven't heard of yet... and they usually fail or get bought out by a bigger company before 99.9% of people do ever hear of them.
    2) Expansion where they take their model and duplicate it, do marketing, and grow it again and again (usually the most fun and profitable part for the company and its shareholders). They're usually still privately held, small (<$2B), or mid-cap $2-10B stocks (think GrubHub or UnderArmour or Poke Bar or Aspire Food Science).
    3) Maintenance phase (maturity) where they have little left room for growth, so they try to mostly keep stable and stay profitable. They will usually pay dividends and/or buy other companies with their profits. (think CocaCola or Macys or or Phillip Morris or Ford Motor).

    I would consider Tesla and Uber both mid to late into the expansion phase. I do understand that you think Tesla has large required expenses for making the cars, but people are buying them, so that is not a bad thing. Even if they stumble, the fact that they have recently proven they can sell and profit will earn them continued credit worthiness and shareholder interest. People have always been interested in their cars, but until recently, Tesla's offerings were out of most people's price range.
    Keep in mind that Tesla also makes the solar panel roofs as well. There is a sizable market for that, and through their widespread media attention and mall and media advertising campaigns, Tesla now has better current brand allure and name recognition than any other company in that residential solar roof market. Again, I agree that TSLA is over-valued (AMZN too!), but the market has wet dreams of growth and always seems to take expected growth and sentiment into share pricing.

    I just fail to see how you guys are dismissing and basing the Tesla company as if it's some fly-by-night scam on the verge of being bankrupt. It's clearly not.
     
  6. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I don’t think Tesla is fly by night, the reason why I look at them as start up and why I mentioned both, is auto driving, as that is the logical valuation.

    Both don’t make that much money, it makes fraction of after tax profit the company I work for.

    Cars be it electric, hydrogen or any other carbon free or even ultra low emission fossil fuel car is just a car.
    Riding app is a riding app.

    Neither are making money from royalties.

    Be it Waymo, Uber, Tesla or other company first develops a truely awesome autonomous driving software it’s bigger than amazon and apple combined. (Though not sure if Tesla will licence it out)

    To make the valuation work for Tesla they need to making about half the cars ford makes, from all accounts it’s a nice car, and right now it’s basically Tesla or Tesla, but it will be swamped by other brands in five years.

    Only been in a Tesla a few times as one staff owns a S, and not that interested, but say Porsche, Lexus or Merc made a 4wd for sure or Tesla made a 4wd with quality of the luxury brands.
     
  7. SlyGuy

    SlyGuy Active Member

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    I disagree. Tesla is primarily a manufacturing company with some neat tech... not the other way around. I don't think there is much near term value in the auto-driving tech at all. Investors don't buy for long-term value that may or may not materialize, especially when it doesn't pay dividends. The investors want to see consistent profitability, preferably with growth.

    That was TSLA (or FB, or AMZN) stock value all along: expected future profits. We've known Tesla made neat looking electric cars for awhile, and people wanted the cars. However, it was debated whether they'd actually be able to manufacture them at a digestible price point and deliver on a mass scale (just like it was initially debated after IPO how much Facebook could make on ad revenues).
    Well, Tesla has now proven that they can make cars and that people buy their cars. They've recently sold roughly as many Tesla 3s as leading models like Honda Civic or Toyota Prius have. That's bigtime news, and it's a trend likely to continue. THAT is the core of their value: profit potential. The potential now seems much closer to being realized. Anything else the company does that is nowhere near profitable yet (solar roofs, auto-driving, tech patents, etc) is just a possible future bonus that has pretty nominal effect on share prices. Now that they have "hatched" from a sexy concept to a bona fide manufacturer, their P/E will slowly begin to normalize with their industry as pricing will live or die by sales and profits... just like nearly any other mature company.

    ...personally, I don't think the auto-driving will ever happen. I just don't see it as possible. Having drone cars on the road that drive side-by-side with human controlled cars just won't work for a number of reasons. As they keep trying it, crashes and lawsuits will keep setting them back. Some people will even see those $$$ettlements and probably try to get the auto-driving cars to hit them, haha. Right now, hardly anyone even uses the auto braking and lane assist and auto parking features that Toyota and some makers offer now. And lastly, a whole lot of humans just do enjoy driving. :)
    I suppose you could have separate roads where there are all auto driven vehicles (in communication with one another... sorta like a roller coaster), but the mix won't work. It really has to be all-or-nothing...

     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  8. Silverthorn

    Silverthorn Well-Known Member

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    Navigate on Autopilot.

     
  9. Silverthorn

    Silverthorn Well-Known Member

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    Track mode being rolled out for Model 3 Performance. Short and sweet video.


     
  10. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Audi e-tron GT Electric vehicle. This looks a million times better then any Tesla. Would suck if you just purchased a Tesla before this came out.

     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
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  11. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Will it bounce or will it crash? How much more money can Elon borrow to pump up his stocks?

    Tesla crash.jpg
     
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  12. sgbuyer

    sgbuyer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    A Huawei or Samsung phone is better than an Apple phone and costs way much less and is "a million times better", but why do I still buy an Apple phone? Firstly, because of security - to me, if I'm not convinced that it's secure, even if you give it to me free, I won't use it. By the way, the free phone model already exists if I'm not wrong. Secondly, it's because it's iPhone vs "the rest".

    Every car manufacturer is coming out with a new electric sports car, how will an Audi sports car be better than a Volkswagen or Mercedes or Porsche or even a Lexus sports car? If I'm a traditional businessman or banker, I won't buy an electric sports car - they are no more prestigious and less fun to drive than an ICE sports car. If I'm techie earning a high income I'll get a Tesla. An Audi or even a Porche is no fun at all. The last thing I want is to be seen is driving a "luxury car". They are for "old men".
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  13. Silverthorn

    Silverthorn Well-Known Member

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    The 35,000 dollar standard range has been out for a while. There is also a Standard Plus for a few grand extra.



    The Tesla Shanghai gigafactory is underway.

     
  14. Silverthorn

    Silverthorn Well-Known Member

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    Model 3 Standard plus review.

     
  15. Silverthorn

    Silverthorn Well-Known Member

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  16. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  17. Gullintanni

    Gullintanni Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  18. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Things keep getting worse for Tesla. People shorting will be very happy.

    tesla down.jpg
     
  19. yuripuka

    yuripuka Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  20. Silverthorn

    Silverthorn Well-Known Member

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    It's amazing how quick the Shanghai gigafactory has gone up. They have moved a lot of machinery in already including the huge stamping press they use.

     

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