Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by mmm....shiney!, Feb 25, 2015.

  1. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Latest on Tesla from sovereignman.com

    Just a few days ago, shareholders of Tesla approved an almost comical pay package for their [cult leader] CEO Elon Musk that could potentially put $50 BILLION in his pocket over the next decade.

    Let’s put this figure in perspective: at $5 billion per year, Musk would make more than every single CEO in the S&P 500. COMBINED.

    In other words, if you add up the salaries of all the CEOs of the 500 largest companies in America, it would still be less than the $5 billion per year that Mr. Musk stands to earn.

    That’s pretty astounding given that Tesla’s own 2017 4th quarter financial report (page 24) states that Elon “does not devote his full time and attention to Tesla”.

    Or more importantly, that under Musk’s leadership, Tesla’s chronic financial incontinence has racked up more than $4.97 billion in operating losses for its shareholders.

    Or that the company has been under SEC investigation (without bothering to disclose this fact to shareholders).

    Yet they saw fit to reward him with the largest CEO pay package in the history of the world.

    This is precisely the type of behavior that is only seen during periods of extreme irrationality when financial markets are at their peak… and poised for a serious correction.

    I’ll close this brief letter today quoting John Thompson, Chicago-based value investor and Chief Investment Officer of Vilas Capital Management.

    Thompson is one of the few hedge fund managers who has consistently outperformed the market, and his fund is betting big against Tesla. What follows are some passages about Tesla from Thompson’s recent investor updates:

    I think Tesla is going to crash in the next 3-6 months. . .

    . . . partially due to their incompetence in making and delivering the Model 3, partially due to falling demand for the Model S and X, partially due to the extreme valuation, partially due to their horrendous finances that will imminently require a huge capital raise, partially due to a likely downgrade of their credit rating by Moody's from B- to CCC (default likely) which should scare their parts suppliers into requiring cash on delivery (a death knell), partially due to the market's recent falling appetite for risk, and partially due to our suspicions of fraudulent accounting activities, evidenced by 85 SEC letters/investigations and two top finance people leaving in the last month. . .

    Tesla, without any doubt, is on the verge of bankruptcy.

    The company cannot survive the next twelve months without access to capital from Wall Street Banks or private investors.

    We estimate that Tesla will need roughly $8 billion in the next 18 months to fund operating losses, capital expenditures, debts coming due, and working capital needs.

    However, it appears that due to past SEC investigations and current investigations (which terrifyingly have not been disclosed by the company), it will likely be difficult for Tesla to access public markets.

    According to a recent analyst report, there have been 85 SEC requests for additional information and disclosures in the last 5 years.

    This compares to Ford Motor Company’s total of zero over the same time frame. This means that Tesla is pushing many, many boundaries.

    When a company is under formal investigation, it is difficult, if not impossible, to raise capital from public markets as these investigations must be made public, which generally craters the equity and debt values.

    Therefore, Tesla investors better hope there are a number of Greater Fools in China or elsewhere to keep the company solvent.

    At some point, the music stops and there aren’t any open chairs.

    No matter how good a social investment makes you feel as it is going up, extreme anger will result if most or all of your money is permanently lost, especially when it is due to false and misleading statements by senior company officers.

    This is when the [Department of Justice] steps in and escorts untruthful managements to their new living quarters.

    . . . As a reality check, Tesla is worth twice as much as Ford* yet Ford made 6 million cars last year at a $7.6 billion profit while Tesla made 100,000 cars at a $2 billion loss.

    Further, Ford has $12 billion in cash held for "a rainy day" while Tesla will likely run out of money in the next 3 months.

    . . . I have never seen anything so absurd in my career.
     
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  2. Shaddam IV

    Shaddam IV Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    It’s not looking good for Tesla. The big auto makers will all have purchased all of the Tesla models by now, gotten them into their research labs and dismantled and examined every component and they have the production capacity that Tesla doesn’t and they have all of Teslas innovations in their research databases now.
     
  3. reaver

    reaver Active Member

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    But can they sell you that Tesla level of smugness on wheels?
    The Tesla name has an insane amount of consumer goodwill attached to it considering how short their time in the game has been. Especially in the normie gen-x to gen-y audiences.
    Much the same as the when the Prius first came out.

    Lets take a quick trip back to 2006


    Toyota could never make the Prius into a Tesla imho... But i'll be goddamned if they wont try to, and sell it as a Lexus.
     
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  4. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Did Tesla innovate anything? Apart from a better way to scam people..
     
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  5. Shaddam IV

    Shaddam IV Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Well I can’t argue with that point.
     
  6. Silverthorn

    Silverthorn Well-Known Member

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  7. Silverthorn

    Silverthorn Well-Known Member

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  8. Pirocco

    Pirocco Well-Known Member

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    So far Tesla didn't have any profit year in its entire existence.
    Even more worse, the bigger loss years are more recent years.
    The entire story around Musk (Tesla, SpaceX, ...) suits entirely the typical hype story.
    Tesla just serves as a governments supported means to wipe out some of speculators/savers existing saved money. That's how the central planning controls inflation: create new and destory existing, so that the former replaces the latter instead of adding to it.
     
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  9. Silverthorn

    Silverthorn Well-Known Member

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    A group of car companies have put money into creating a network of high powered fast chargers, called Ionity, in Europe. The first one has gone in in Germany. Plan is for 400 by 2020. They will need to get a wriggle on to achieve that.

    http://www.ionity.eu/ionity-en.html
     
  10. m3sca1

    m3sca1 Active Member

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    Who killed the electric car is a doco well worth watching if you want some background on the electric car and why it has been so slow to take off.
    Tesla does a great of selling Ice to Eskimos, the tesla powerwall is nothing more than a bunch of 18650 Lithium cells packed in a fancy box.
    It is all about creating the 'want'. I once got a ride in a Model S, that thing pinned me to the seat like nothing I have ever been in.
    These cars require so much energy to charge, most houses need an upgrade to the power coming into the dwelling just to accommodate the charger.
    Consider if every house on the street now had the same energy demands...the energy grid and power plants would need upgrading too.
     
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  11. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    That’s an interesting point. Do we have enough reliable supply of electricity?
     
  12. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Considering the power grid will go down with much less demand on the system, i would say no, we don't have enough reliable electricity atm.
    Australia should go nuclear, we would be much better off. The new reactor designs are amazingly safe.
     
  13. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Can you imagine trying to sell that to the electorate?

    Labor and The Greens would oppose it because they’re as dumb as dog shit, and the Libs lack the balls to propose it because they’re as weak as bat’s piss.
     
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  14. Pirocco

    Pirocco Well-Known Member

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    Something to ponder about... unlike fossile based energy sources, electricity cannot be hoarded / stored for any useful (for that purpose) period. You can't have a couple jerrycans to multiple your radius / independency of supply.
    And with electricity sources like direct sunlight and wind, there is a big factor beyond control. Most energy is needed in winter, caused by a low sitting sun and usually less wind, so least energy avail.
    So, if you decide to use an electrical car, your independency/freedom will shrink alot, due to being dependent on electricity / power grid, which is completely under control by government, that can decide to switch off certain users / certain streets. A selective fashion, its creation excuse being able to switch off what they consider "non important" during times of electricity supply not enough.
    Just imagine, government could switch off your electricity and with it, and very soon, your mobility too.
    Government could even decide to introduce a requirement for a license to "tank" electricity at such a charger network.
     
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  15. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Looks like mmm....shiney! called the Tesla scam well before any of us.
     
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  16. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Credit should really go where credit is due, to the author of the work I originally linked: David Stockman.

    But I do take some delight in flipping the bird at the forum's previously biggest troll Space Pete who told me to "suck it up you whiny little bitch" and questioned my motivation which he claimed seemed driven by an "anaemic imagination and petulant bitterness". Where are you now Space Pete you bipolar nong?
     
  17. spannermonkey

    spannermonkey Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Location:
    here there everywhere
    AND
    There is newer tech being brought into the market
    I know a person who has the rights to distribute in Asia
    40ft container size batteries
    when hooked up a small town with solar panels
    The whole town can go of the grid
    The container size battery can store 5 times the capacity of Tesla like batteries
    Power companies are already placing orders
     
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  18. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    What, Elon is not a scammer! he is a visionary that will save us from AI robots and pollution (says his mindless cheer squad) :p

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Silverthorn

    Silverthorn Well-Known Member

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    Curious to know if you kept the deposit and are still thinking of getting one?
     
  20. goldpelican

    goldpelican Administrator Staff Member

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    Still reserved. I'm waiting for the base model - at the moment they're only making and selling the premium models, not the $35k base model. When it eventually comes around I'll make a decision on whether I want the long range version or not based on cost - it will be getting to the point where there's going to be a lot more Model S in the secondary market, so the availability of a cheaper long range vehicle might bring down second hand prices on those.
     
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