Tesla: Wall Street scam in plain sight

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by mmm....shiney!, Feb 25, 2015.

  1. BuggedOut

    BuggedOut Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Independent risk assessment to determine size, type and likelihood of foreign threat. (Actuaries?) then conventional risk reduction and mitigation strategy development and implementation which includes expansion/update of military. If risk changes then that can flow through.

    It's a bit trickier than standard insurance company processes, but instead of just putting this kind of risk in the too hard basket (like insurance companies do) actually put the work in to figure it out.
     
  2. BuggedOut

    BuggedOut Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I'm surprised at you shiney. Would have thought you'd have NBN as a private enterprise issue. ;)

    But my answer is similar. Independent experts to do effective cost/benefit analysis and go from there.

    Plenty of hard problems to solve, but we've got more chance of solving them if we don't have career politicians involved.
     
  3. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    The cost/benefit calculations would involve trading off efficiencies, coverage, technologies, expenditure, etc. These sound like free market decisions, except, profit is not the key outcome. It would be impossible to avoid politicising these decisions whilst public money is being used. Same goes for all infrastructure projects.
     
  4. BuggedOut

    BuggedOut Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    There has to be some level of politics otherwise there is no voting and you basically have an undemocratic setup. But that doesn't mean you couldn't have a tender process, voters electing where tax dollars are spent or some other form of crowd funding type mechanism to decide which way it goes.
     
  5. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I'm not trying to poo poo your ideas, they have merit, but any decision making process around public expenditure infrastructure is always going to end up with winners ie those that get the infrastructure, and losers those that still fund it but miss out, regardless if a committee or a majority of voters make a decision. Therefore, it is impossible to say that the public good has been maximised because in reality all that has been maximised is the resources for some at the expense of others.

    The public good is a myth. :)
     
  6. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    :lol: war of words:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...o-calls-tesla-a-fraud-and-elon-musk-tweets-it
     
  7. KiwiGreg

    KiwiGreg Member

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    Is anybody on the forum using a Powerwall or similar storage system? Any real life cost analysis calcs?
     
  8. aleks

    aleks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Elon Musk unveils his latest scam, solar roof tiles and version 2 of the home/utility batteries

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRqSkR4ENAg[/youtube]
     
  9. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Good on him. Will Goldman be buying shares from him using Fed money?
     
  10. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Musk the crony-capitalist?

    https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...d-to-float-idea-of-a-carbon-tax-to-trump-ceos
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-rapport-with-trump-yields-40-rally-for-tesla
     
  11. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Why would you need a tax on carbon emissions if global warming is not real?
     
  12. Pirocco

    Pirocco Well-Known Member

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    There's a prominent politician here that last week got an article written about him, he replaced his pure electrical car with a electrical+oil engined one, motivation being lack of radius.
    More general, here politicians intend to abandon nuclear power plants, and in recent years they wrote entire plans/schemes for situations with lack of electrical power (being switching off selected streets).
    Now imagine an entire transportation energy demand, adding to electricity demand.
    It's a ridiculous contradiction, yet it's like completely outside the scope of their political correctness.
     
  13. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Time to remind readers why the government's support of Musk and other energy innovators is just plain bad economics, a misuse of taxpayer funds and in some cases "blatant corporate welfare".

    https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/energy/energy-subsidies
     
  14. aleks

    aleks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  15. Lovey80

    Lovey80 Active Member

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    I actually have no problem with socialism, just as long as everyone pays the same % of tax. I think the starting point should be, where is the Tax Free Threshold? How much should someone earn tax free before they begin contributing. I think right now the figure should be about 25k to allow people to climb out of the poverty trap.

    So everyone gets 25k earned before they start paying tax. Now we have to figure out THE tax rate. Not rates, Rate! Every man and his dog that earns over the TFT now pays that rate of tax on every dollar earned. Let's say for arguments sake it's 15% and it's the same for corporations.

    What ever the total tax take on that is sets the budget. From there and only from there can we really determine the role of government within that budget. If Police/Military/Courts take up the lions share of that then so be it. If as shown by countries like Singapore that such moves spur huge investment and the total take balloons then they can spend all they like on their arts programs, etc etc I couldn't give a stuff.

    Socialism only really gets my goat when one group are paying the lions share while another group pays next to nothing net. Right now 50% are in the negative when it comes to tax paid versus tax taken. That's wrong.
     
  16. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    What you've described is just a system based on a flat tax rate. Such a policy could operate under a minarchist society, it is not a defining characteristic of socialism so therefore is not a defence of such a political and economic system nor is it an appropriate trade-off for implementing socialist policies.

    Socialism is the collective spending of individual wealth ie the forced appropriation and consumption of someone's private property by a group. I have a huge problem with socialism because it hinges upon the mistaken assumption that somebody else thinks they know how to spend my money better than I do - and I'm not given an opportunity to differ. It is an immoral system that cannot be justified.

    To bring it back to the topic, i have a huge problem with the government taking the profits of one person ie the taxpayer and giving it to or lending it to another eg Elon Musk. If Musk wants to venture into the world of business, no matter his intentions, he should raise the funds privately.
     
  17. aleks

    aleks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Chinese electric car takes Nurburgring lap record, only 14 being made so far? kinda makes it into "hypercar production car" territory. Lap record or not it's stupidly fast.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  18. Silverthorn

    Silverthorn Well-Known Member

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    Been following tesla lately in the lead up to production starting on the model 3. An exciting time. Heeps of reservation but can they produce at a profitable rate. They are going with very limited options to start, colour and wheels, to maximise through put at start up.

    They look very good but the interior probably won't appeal to a lot of people. From what you can see so far I don't mind it but with the number of reservations I guess that's a worry for a couple of years down the track.

    Musk is the first glimmer of hope I've seen in forty years. Hope start up goes well.
     
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  19. Silverthorn

    Silverthorn Well-Known Member

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  20. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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