Swan puts congestion tax (and other taxes!) on agenda for summit

In an enlightened society a Laissez-faire economy could work.

For instance, I could start a business which establishes solar-thermal power for remote towns while taking into account _all_ factors, from the environment to the cost benefit for the community.
In current circumstances, the government would probably stop me cos I'm not "qualified" to build such systems even though I grew up building electronic systems and programming them.
But I can do it, and in the economic environment you advocate it would be much simpler.

That's an example of a positive outcome.

A negative outcome is when some cowboy operator opens a factory without considering _all_ the factors, and starts to dump toxins into ground-water.

What I'm getting at is that the kinda people we have to deal with are the downfall of such a system.
They are lacking as much as the government in the morals department.
Until we are able to educate the future generations rather than shove crappy/marketted Top 40s chart music down their throats and brainwash them with needless gadgets and hollywood thinking, the system you advocate cannot work.

And if we did manage to enlighten society, we may end up in a technologically advanced tribal-type community where money may not be necessary

 

I personally wouldn't connect 'rational discussion' with your mindset or character Renovator.

The extent of your rational debating skills doesn't extend too far beyond insults, baiting and dismissal before the fact.

People ask why I don't post much here anymore.

I think the last few posts by yourself illustrate clearly why.

I am not seeking your validation or approval Renovator. I don't require your consensus or seek confirmation from what you believe is correct.

You will simply have to accept that fact and move on.

 

Moving on then...

@ Auspm, does your stance mean you would be in favour of a user-pays congestion charge on roads?

 

Still no answers to some basic questions .....I rest my case. Enjoy your day

 

Renovator, the link is in my sig on why I won't waste my time in replying to your demands.

 

Oh i didnt realise a link in your sig was an answer :.Do you consider anything that is asked of you a demand ? or are you just avoiding a straight answer?Bwuahahahaha :lol:

 

I have given a straight answer, you didn't understand it. What you did was assume it wasn't satisfactory under your own rationale and so dismissed it as of no relevence, demanding an answer you wanted to hear.

I have no intention of explaining to you what you don't want to hear.

 

A great game of tennis! Auspm vs renovator

 

Auspm your still full of hot air & no substance .
You have given me a straight answer? where? kindly quote your answers to any of my questions so not only myself but others can debate them.

I noticed you ignored Big ADs question aswell as jnkmbx....mmmm seems to be a pattern forming here. :lol:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation

The first known system of taxation ...araoh. A share (20%) of the crop was the tax.

Ir seems the 20 percent cap is long gone!!

and

 

But.... I didn't ask questions, just made statements. :|


Auspm and I are part of the same team (tin foil hat brigade).
Sharing our views to "get to the bottom of it" is important in forming and/or reinforcing a set of rock solid beliefs for all involved.

 

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."
- Lord Acton, 1887

The power to tax indiscriminately, is a power over the wealth and wellbeing of the people that is as direct as it is absolute, when backed by the ATO, police, gaol, etc. Therefore, if you accept Lord Acton's premise, all who wield such power are already or will become corrupt.

Any argument over the merits of a tax is as pathetic as it is stupid. There is no virtue in the corrupt and no virtuous benefit to be had by their hand. It is that simple.

A belief in the benevolence of a taxing authority is truly misguided.

Next you will be arguing that a tax on your PM's could have benefits if seen in such-and-such a light.

 

G Edward Griffin (author of The Creature From Jekyll Island) has some words about government here (when speaking about the USA). Pretty relevant to what people are complaining about here I reckon.

Fascinating interview.


"...your statement that we need an honorable government; well that's an oxymoron. There's no such thing as an honorable government. Never has been. Governments always deteriorate...into criminal syndicates..."


"...when you have a group of people who can govern another group of people, it ultimately degenerates into a criminal syndicate. What this country was in the beginning was a protectorate; a system in which the purpose of the state was to protect the lives, liberty and property of its citizens and nothing more. It was a protectorate but they called it a government...and of course it eventually became that. It didn't take very long before the people that went to work for this protectorate decided they wanted to change it back into a government which all the other states in the world have always been. "

"do we want a limited government? There's another oxymoron..."

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjx-xXwIkR8[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvkJ9RE61qg[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sMGkjgnGQ[/youtube]

 

A syndicate? A syndicate! You don't have to go very far to see what sort of role the ATO fullfills in this nation.

Criminalises locals, forces jobs and wealth creation overseas, kills all competition to the big industry players just so it can tax the imports. If that doesn't get you upset, then you are already dead.

 

I dont know where i said you asked a question. he ignored your post where you said his system was flawed

 

Oh, well in that case it's ok then. :/

His system cannot be implemented at the moment under these circumstances, but it is not necessarily flawed in terms of its fundamentals.
Like many feasible systems (including the ones out of my own imagination), they are doomed to fail unless a social "reboot" occurs first.

 

From lung cancer.

 

The US also has an exit tax now... meaning if you give up citizenship= there is a tax on it.

 

I knew that was coming, I was going to prempt the nanny statist "for their own good" argument, but found it all redundant after my last four words.

 

It's was not coincidence that Tony Blair (UK ex PM) was here last week in Melbourne wrt taxes.

Swan released his discussion paper with a lot of taxes Blair imposed on the UK taxpayer. More of the other taxes to hit the headlines in a few weeks.