South African parliament passes expropriation law

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by mmm....shiney!, Feb 28, 2018.

  1. greedy Kobold

    greedy Kobold Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    That is true. The sad thing about SA story, there is a history
    of racism and hatred from both sides.

    Though, tis seems to be a tool for few vocal ones and politicians,
    Saw people co-working there without major issues and met a few happy mixed couples.
    (my observations might be quite dates, though)
     
  2. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    The EFF’s website: effonline.org

    The stuff nightmares are made of. The denial of sound economic policy and social reorganisation by this mob of Marxists is gobsmacking. Socialism is a failed experiment because it has no price signals. Policies that prioritise small-scale farming over large-scale farming is evidence of that and leads to inefficiencies, resource waste and poverty.

    On their land policy:

     
  3. Shaddam IV

    Shaddam IV Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    The foundations of Socialism are so fundamentally fractured that it historically always fails and always ends in tyranny and starvation. Where do you even start? Western civilisation developed and was distilled over 2000 or so years plus. Socialism is a concept farted out of one man's brain and in every case it had to be initiated at gunpoint and was catastrophic each time it was imposed on a population. Knowing how corrupt and inept politicians are handing over a complex economy to central planning always creates exactly the situation that we see right now in Venezuela. It always requires that there be a huge secret police and informant system. One of the hallmarks of a Communist country is that no-one is allowed to leave. You try and leave and you are shot in the back in a no-mans land between fences or die in a DMZ from a bullet or a land mine. Every time I crossed between East and West Germany and had to travel down that corridor winding back and forth between bollards and had German shepherds go through our vehicle and police guards inspect the underside of our vehicle with mirrors it was a reminder to me of exactly what collectivist tyranny is. It is Equality in Poverty and you are not allowed to escape. You certainly weren't going to do it in a Trabant with pressed cardboard doors.

    Anyone who promotes communism or Marxism after the historic lessons of the 20th century is either stunningly ignorant or they are malevolent and running some kind of agenda that is pathological.
     
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  4. greedy Kobold

    greedy Kobold Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Marxism and socialism fails, but the world poorest countires has
    nothing to do with these ideologies.

    The world poorest countries follows capitalistic routes.

    Were would be the majority of SS australian members, if socialistic and
    communistic China fails...but that does not suit the brainwashed agenda.
     
  5. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    They don’t follow capitalism. And as I said before, China is an economic success story because it adopted free-market principles. Not because it is socialist.

    It is an example of rising economic development leading to rising living standards. Just like has happened in many other parts of the world.
     
  6. greedy Kobold

    greedy Kobold Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Haha, does not suite the agenda?
    Googling it quickly

    capitalism
    ˈkapɪt(ə)lɪz(ə)m/
    noun
    noun: capitalism
    1. an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.

    They do follow capitalism and it does not
    work miracles for them.
     
  7. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I’m not sure what agenda you’re referring to.

    China is complicated, but I’ve explained it quite simply twice already. It’s exactly the same for Russia and India too.
     
  8. greedy Kobold

    greedy Kobold Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I provide you examples of numerous countries, where state ideology has nothing to
    do with Marxism and socialism.
    These are capitalistic countries and capitalistic ideology fails them.

    If China, India, Russia and others are complicated, how they are compared to the situation in SA?
    Where in China, India, Russia or in the works of Marx racism is promoted?
     
  9. Shaddam IV

    Shaddam IV Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    If it wasn’t for Western civilisations sharing their technologies Africa would still be a primitive hunter gatherer race living short, violent lives. For all of the West's mis-steps and colonialism it also invented, perfected and shared with the entire world plumbing and sanitation, electricity and lighting, telephony, cars and trains, computers, functional and brilliant medicine and dentistry, satellites and navigation, international transport and aeroplanes, the internet, democratic government and the rule of law, it brought numeracy and literacy to Africa, cultivation and irrigation, the list is endless. Africans have access to the entire internet for education, they can use cell phones to assist their farmers to set pricing and get their goods to market, they can travel the world.

    If countries that are based on capitalism are so bad then where are the millions of poor migrants streaming out of the USA and Western Europe into Mexico and Africa? Interesting that even the poorest people in the USA and Europe still regard Africa and Mexico as an even worse choice. And no-one at all wants to move to a socialist paradise like North Korea or the failed Socialist state of Venezuela.
     
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  10. greedy Kobold

    greedy Kobold Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Where did I say the countries based on capitalism are bad.
    I said it is not a panacea or universal way to prosperity.

    The poorest people of US and Europe benefit from
    their countries robbing their colonies or native nations
    from land and resources.

    Socialistic countries also brought in all the benefits you mentioned.
    for the record, Marx published his manifest before US had slavey abolished.
     
  11. greedy Kobold

    greedy Kobold Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    re socialistic paradise, people work in China and Vietnam.
     
  12. Shaddam IV

    Shaddam IV Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    More than any other nation on Earth China has benefited from Capitalism. It has lifted over a billion Chinese from poverty and is creating a middle class there. It is occurring in two ways - Firstly the capital inflows from successful capitalist countries that are China's industries biggest customers and secondly by having provided China with technology and education to allow it to lift itself from the shattered wasteland that Mao left it in. China is copying the West at an extraordinary rate and in doing so it is lifting it's living standards. It's no accident that China's cities are replicas of Western capitalist cities because China has clearly identified success and is emulating it as fast as it can.

    Of course capitalism is not a panacea or universal way to prosperity. It is however the most successful way that we have to approach those ideals. Socialism is the opposite - Collectivism is tyrannical and has to be enforced at gunpoint and is demonstrably the way to poverty.
     
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  13. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    They are not free-market economies. They may have some private ownership of the means of production but their citizens lack the economic and political freedoms to maximise the potential that the private ownership of the means of production can bring about. In those nations market failures are a result of intrusions by the State into their economies and political systems, they are not an indicator that capitalism is faulty.

    More here on that: https://www.silverstackers.com/forums/index.php?threads/capitalism-is-good.66030/

    In China’s case it’s hard line communist government has been both a blessing and a scourge. What I mean by that is that when the Politburo decided that it would adopt free-market principles there would not be any opposition, so as a result, its economy boomed. Unlike in Australia say where alternative views to the free-market are both accepted and promoted which thwart progress eg minimum wages.

    Edit to add: Conversely, China’s decision to ban ICO’s is indicative of the scourge of a dictatorial socialist system.

    I don’t think Marx promoted racism, he just banged on about the proletariat and bourgeoisie and other fluff as far as I know. It hasn’t stopped his Marxist followers from enacting racist policies though, which is what bordie was trying to explain in relation to the EFF. China has more than its fair share of ethnic issues, including government mandated policies on the extermination of certain ethnic groups or their culture as does Russia and Indonesia. Racism though is not a peculiarly Marxist trait any more than it is a purely capitalist trait, it’s a good tool to wield though.

    The South African plan is to target white people as a means to achieve an economic revolution. For some, the EFF for example, it has a Marxist outcome as well ie property in the hands of the workers. Mind you that the ownership of the means of production is to be subject to the approval of the State,read: an elite, whereas in a free-market economy the ownership of the means of production is subject to the will of the consumer. It’s those price signals I was mentioning earlier that are absent in guided economies, yet are ever-present in free-market types. So as a result, SA’s foray into Marxism is destined to fail.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
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  14. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Most of the north had abolished slavery long before Engels was squandering his father’s wealth on some long-haired German nut job.
     
  15. greedy Kobold

    greedy Kobold Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    China is a socialistic country, they put it clearly in
    their constitution.
    And the state ideology is socialism, not capitalism.

    If China copies West, then buyt this logic West copied ideas of Marx.
    Marx was writing about the rights of workers, when West was using slave labour.
     
  16. greedy Kobold

    greedy Kobold Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    there was a slave labour in 1848 and colonies by capitalist states, this is the fact.
    At the time workers had not rights..

    :re nut job
    I think that is what you are writing, if you like such wordings.
    that also shows level of intellect and education.
     
  17. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Faulty logic eg:

    I like pizza.
    Pizza is Italian.
    Therefore I must speak Italian.

    o_O

    The two premises do not support the conclusion - like in your argument.
     
  18. greedy Kobold

    greedy Kobold Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Yes Captain, that is what I pointed out.

    China and Vietnam are socialistic states, as per their constitutions.
    The system does well for them.
     
  19. greedy Kobold

    greedy Kobold Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    now back to SA situation

    socialism
    ˈsəʊʃəlɪz(ə)m/
    noun
    noun: socialism
    1. a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

    That is not what was offered there.
     
  20. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Sigh.

    It wouldn’t have anything to do with free-market policies by any chance?

    iiq77xee0m.jpg
     

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