Robot Tax - Now

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by Holdfast, Mar 16, 2017.

  1. Pirocco

    Pirocco Well-Known Member

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    The entire discussion subject is moot, since the "robot" in 'robot tax' just serves as an excuse for theft.
     
  2. millededge

    millededge Active Member

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    If profit be the decider, then the selfish animal will reign
     
  3. wrcmad

    wrcmad Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Really?
    Making a profit is selfish?
    Or just a means to making a living, whatever that standard of living may be?
    Geezus.
    You obviously make a profit (you are spending disposable on PM's :p)
     
  4. Holdfast

    Holdfast Well-Known Member

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    This thread is now...locked; regards Asimov! :D

    Bluddy cranky bunch of buggers!
     
  5. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    What does the owner of the robot factory making 10,000 shoes a day do with the shoes?

    Celebrate the entrepreneurs who simultaneously provide cheap shoes to the masses and to those who provide the masses with ways to get the shoes.
     
  6. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Profit and loss deserve an entire thread on their own, but i just couldn't be turtled because sometimes, moving on is preferable to beating your head against a wall. So for anyone that wants to delve deeper and learn go here: https://mises.org/library/profit-and-loss-0/html. Here's a teaser:

    Edit to add: I'd rather be a profiteer than a loseer. :p
     
  7. Big A.D.

    Big A.D. Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    So, in essence, your entire argument is based on an understanding of how traditional economics involving humans works, but you have no clue about what will happen when we start throwing robots and artificial intelligences into the mix?

    Yeah, that's kind of my point.
     
  8. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Well I did already address that. Automation is nothing especially new or scary and is highly desirable.

    True AI however, does have the potential to replace humanity altogether and humans become extinct. A robot tax will not fix the issue of a war between two intelligent species.
     
  9. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Neither do you. Nor does anyone else.

    So now is not the time to erect artificial barriers to productivity improvements.
     
  10. Killface

    Killface Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Quick question? Are we actually treating the OP as serious?

    I took it to be transparently facetious, but maybe that's just me.
     
  11. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    The OP was serious. :)
     
  12. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    We'll be at war with aliens before we're at war with robots.

    Just ask skyrocket.
     
  13. Killface

    Killface Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Well in that case, I refer you to post four, which advocates applying the highest tax bracket to the wages earned by said robots.

    Clearly this will fix the problem as they are performing highly skilled, valuable work.

    (Insert absolutely earnest, definitely not sarcastic smiley)
     
  14. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Talk to Elon, he owns the robots.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o0aDdyIsm4[/youtube]
     
  15. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    ^ yes, the Poster Boy of the Left and Saviour of the World harnesses the productive power of robots for profit. :lol:
     
  16. gingham69

    gingham69 Member

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    Ahhhh so sweet of you to think of me! :)
    Thanks for the offer but I'd just get the same robotic answers :lol:
    Funny though you remind me of an old joke..
    Why was the robot angry?? Because someone kept pushing his buttons :cool:
     
  17. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Curious, you thanked a post of Big A.D.'s which arrived at an erroneous conclusion regarding the function of "profit". Don't you want to defend yourself and your obviously own erroneous belief?
     
  18. FullMetalFever

    FullMetalFever New Member

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    This discussion has been had many a time on this forum and it always seems to disintegrate into the same old arguments.

    On one side you have your capitalists, libertarians, she'll be right mate, coz it always has been arguments. People will be re-trained, work other "jobs", do less hours, the supply and demand will make everything takes care of itself. We can explain all this way with basic economics, analysing past revolutions, and some quotes from "experts" on the subject ....

    On the other, you have those thinking about the social implications of what a robotic (and more importantly AI) future means to the human race. Suggestions are thrown around about taxes, universal incomes, unemployment, poverty, etc, etc.

    Without doubt, we are progressing full steam ahead into robotics. Anything to do with manual labour (particularly if it has a set process/procedure) will be replaced. It doesn't matter if its construction, food making/serving, transport, number crunching and even medical practice such as surgery. In this particular iteration, people WILL be replaced, they WILL need to re-skill/re-train, but there WILL still be other work that needs to be done and requires humans to do so. In this scenario, things will be much like previous technological advances/revolutions.

    AI however, is another beast unto itself. When you have advanced AI combined with robotics (which itself will continue to evolve), you will surely arrive at a point in time when 99% of human production activity will become superfluous.

    The robots/AI will survey the ground, organise the drilling, analyse the results, organise the mining, do the actual mining, take care of all the logistics. Materials will arrive at the factories where they will be completely received by the bots, processed, turned into widgets and placed for sale on the market (which has also been analysed) all by bots. Robots will break down, but with advanced robotics/AI, they will repair themselves (note this has traditionally been one of the re-skill areas - i.e. human servicing of the new tech). I challenge you to come up with occupations that will require humans (other than government and ownership of corporations that employ the bots) ...

    At this point, the economists amongst us, will parrot out lines about labour becoming so cheap as a result of this, that it will once again be attractive for companies to hire humans. As Big A.D already pointed out, this is highly unlikely as there will still be multiple advantages of having bots over humans. They can work 24/7, don't complain, don't need sick/annual/whatever leave, no worries on OH&S, have a one time capital cost and will produce things exactly the same every time. Let's not mention that the robots will be building themselves (as well as the aforementioned extraction of materials, etc) and that should mean that robots are cheap to purchase.

    Given this is a discussion forum, its my belief that the only thing up for discussion is the social impact and ways to deal with such. Shutting down such conversation with the capitalist view of she'll be right mate, it always has been and always will be, adds absolutely nothing to a forum that is already growing stale. Fact is, no-one knows/knew the future. Not Bastiat, Einstein, Nostradamus or even Billy Meier. Robotics/AI is likely to disrupt the human race more than any other previous advance and discussing the implications of such does not mean that someone is a chicken little who can only envisage dystopian futures.

    Finally, for myself, I would like to think that I'll be able to seize the right opportunities to use robotics/AI to my advantage. I will look for any and all opportunities to create profits from such so that at some point in the future I can be on the beach sipping margaritas ....... but doing so of my own making and not hoping that government wealth redistribution will enable us all to do so.
     
  19. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    -1

    Your use of use the terms "capitalist" and "economist" to imply that neither of these schools of thought have any concern for social matters is erroneous. Capitalism is the best method for enhancing society's outcomes and economics is the foundation of all human interaction. Both have community at the core.

    Gustavo R. Velasco

    The best way to ensure a prosperous future is to encourage capitalism and look to economics to guide our behaviours, this mean lowering any barriers to the free-market and encouraging entrepreneurs to find profitable solutions to whatever dilemma we may face. Chicken Littles are not helpful.
     
  20. Big A.D.

    Big A.D. Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Before things get f***ed up is the ideal time to develop procedures and protocols to guide future actions so that they occur in the way you want them to.
     

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