Roadblocks to prosperity

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by mmm....shiney!, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Lol, I was right, you’re account has been hacked by a 12yo.
     
  2. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Hardly I do have a problem with self entitled arse holes though

    Though I am happy as it you and people like you that have ensured the lnp won't get elected in QLD again for at least 15 years
     
  3. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Learn about the market and how it functions to best meet the needs of every individual.
     
  4. NaturesProphet

    NaturesProphet Member

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    If businesses were to close due to the higher wages then I think that is the best outcome of all. Give the workers the night off to spend some time with family and piss off consumerism for a night. For the businesses that are solid and can cop the extra wages then also a good outcome and both parties are rewarded accordingly. The only loser here is the tight arse businessman who wants to exploit workers for little to no reward on a night of great importance to most in Australia
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019
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  5. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I’m assuming you’re not a business person?

    Nor would you consider yourself a consumer? Yet everyone is a consumer and consumption is the end goal of all production. In other words it’s the meaning of life.

    Too deep for you? Misread what I’m talking about? Learn about the market and how it functions to best meet the needs of every individual.
     
  6. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Correct and it's arse hole business owners like the above that simply don't get it and never will
     
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  7. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    The indoctrination runs through you strongly.

    Learn about the market and how it functions to best meet the needs of every individual.
     
  8. Agnostic

    Agnostic Active Member Silver Stacker

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    F wits arse hole bosses
    tight arse businessman who wants to exploit workers

    hmmmm anyone got any other phrases to add?

    personally i will spend some of the Christmas period processing payroll, doing BAS, preparing superannuation payments, also state payroll tax forms, entering invoices and if i get a chance, a tiny bit of prospecting for new clients. also i will be on duty to handle any overflow emergency requests from clients who cannot reach their employee representative.

    no one forced me to adopt this lifestyle, and i am not seeking a medal; but its not like any get offered :)
     
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  9. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    My employees are worth more to me than I am to them.
     
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  10. oziwassabi

    oziwassabi Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    For a genuine question;
    Having said the above, is it not therefore a valid request to be paid a little extra as compensation for spending traditionally festive times with your business instead of with their family? Good/happy employees are good for business.

    Personally I think Christmas day and 8pm NYE to 8pm NYD warrants extra pay, and "some" of the other public holidays, but the government are trying to go too far which will stifle small businesses.

    In the end though, dont you usually get what you pay for on both sides of the fence?
     
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  11. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    That’s a good question and the solution should be entirely voluntary. There’s also the flip side of workers wanting to work yet not having the opportunity now and consumers who are the most important player in the market having to change their routine in order to satisfy their needs.

    Businesses don’t exist to provide jobs.

    The old Marxist fallacies like @Court Jester and @NaturesProphet cling to die hard though.
     
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  12. NaturesProphet

    NaturesProphet Member

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    Haha and we all know what happens when ""voluntary"" enters the argument. Im proud to say i work in construction where i get double time for any work done outside ordinary hours and we get a 3 week forced shutdown over christmas new year. We get paid well and look at the outcome - Our bosses ie developers are now the majority of the top 100 richest in the country.
     
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  13. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  14. NaturesProphet

    NaturesProphet Member

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    my point is there is a reason why slavery isn't the most efficient form of labour
     
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  15. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    He will argey till he is blue in the face slavery is fine
     
  16. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Nice strawman.

    Justify your position based upon markets instead of fallacies.

    Here, I'll help you out. Firstly, in every argument it's important that the definitions are clear. So let's define slavery:

    So clearly, as workers are not able to be owned, sold or bought by business owners then they are not slaves. So we can put that to rest and concentrate on your original ideas that the decision by business owners to close because of the unaffordable cost of employing workers on a public holiday is good because it (a) reduces consumerism (b) gives workers a night off (c) is a win/win situation for workers and businesses who can afford it and (d) business owners who do not want to pay public holiday rates are tight arsed and exploitative.

    You have not justified any of your original statements, with the possible exception of (c) that because you work in the construction industry and are paid penalty rates, and your bosses are some of the wealthiest individuals in the country then calling a public holiday on Xmas Eve must be a good thing. You forget though that the main reason why the construction industry is so rich is simply because of the policies of central banks and the effect that they have on artificially inflating assets. The result of course is that participants in that industry sector inadvertently exploit those not associated with the construction industry. In other words, the fat pay cheques of construction workers and their bosses come at the expense of others.

    You haven't justified your position either. So either try or just move on.
     
  17. Lovey80

    Lovey80 Well-Known Member

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    and if your industry was one that had to compete with world wide labour markets, you’d be out of a job tomorrow. Your industry is fairly unique now days in that the majority of the labour is land locked by immigration laws. You absolutely couldn’t transfer the same rules and principles across other sectors. At one point in our history the steel you use in construction would have been made here. Now raw materials are shipped all the way to China then sent back here as a finished product cheaper than it could be made here. Decades of artificial government forced inflation and the necessary salary increases has meant a bucket load of those jobs in the whole construction process no longer exists.

    In some ways that’s a good thing as the division of labour has forced parts of the workforce into other, more profitable lines of work.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
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  18. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    And what is constantly missed out in all of this, when the 'exorbitant' wages and conditions won by unions are in place, is that they are accepted by the industry and they ARE paid. The employer budgets as needs be, and the workers are happy and the developers are in their Porsches everybody is doing very well for themselves.

    Like Pavlov's dog, the population is trained to bark in outrage and envy when they find out that the man with the lollipop stick directing the truck through the gate is on $3000 per week plus a range of benefits and perks.
     
  19. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    You left out the bit where we cut worker’s hours when we can’t afford to pay staff.

    Edit to add: to give an example, our turnover is down 10% this year. We cut the hours of staff accordingly, reduced our menu offerings to a size that is more manageable with fewer staff which means we have more to do ourselves and as a result, have increased our profit by 10%. Which actually surprised me. Why would we employ more people when we can make more money without them? We give them hours when we need them, and don’t roster them on when it’s quieter.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
  20. Lovey80

    Lovey80 Well-Known Member

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    During the credit fuelled boom that may seem all well and good. But when the musical chairs music stops and the credit bubble bursts no amount of bargaining with a union is going to see those wages come back to where the market can bare. As a result people are laid off in bulk and companies go bust. The same workers and unions (and banks) demand that the government “do something” and instead of liquidating the debt and allowing the dust (and wages) to settle. Another round of inflationary printing begins. And the business cycle continues.
     
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