RCM Mintshield to "reduce" white spot

Discussion in 'Silver' started by bron.suchecki, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. bron.suchecki

    bron.suchecki Well-Known Member

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    "MINTSHIELD™ from the Royal Canadian Mint is the world's first and only proven solution for reducing white spots on silver bullion coins" http://www.mint.ca/store/campaign/Mintshield-7700022?lang=en_CA&rcmeid=van_mintshield

    I think it is a little disingenuous to use the word "shield" and title your pdf "Solving the silver bullion white spot problem" when after a "four-year process of research and exploration" the best you can say is it only "significantly reducing the occurrence of white spots". I do not see the word "eliminate" or "prevent" anywhere.

    The backyard chemists/minters who gave me grief many moons ago on this issue with Perth Mint I think will find it interesting that RCM looked to "identify the root cause of the spots ... considered every factor that could possibly play a role, including chemical, environmental, handling and storage conditions”

    “We used the full range of tools at our disposal: image analysis system, X-Ray spectroscopy for compositional analyses,and surface microstructure and morphology examinations” and "collaborated with a local Canadian university to take advantage of its laboratories."

    The conclusion: "no single cause of white spots. Multiple factors have an impact, including the way silver reacts with contaminants in processing, handling and storage" (my emphasis on "processing").

    I note that the RCM "identified a way to reduce and contain white spots" only. I would read that the solution only addresses the "handling and storage" causes, not the processing, because the solution is a coating done after minting, so it does not address causes eminating from processing where the contaminant is embedded into the silver.

    And here we get to the key conspiracy question as to why no real solution:
    1. They haven't been able to isolate the cause during processing
    2. They have identified the cause, but it is so costly to reduce that people will not pay the really high premium on the coin they would have to charge
    3. They have identified the cause and it is a cost to reduce, but they would rather not reduce their profit one bit (and can't increase premiums because the market is competitive and/or they think people just won't pay more).
     
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  2. bron.suchecki

    bron.suchecki Well-Known Member

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    No one is taking the bait. Oh well I guess sentiment must really be in the dumps if no one cares about white spot any more.
     
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  3. ozcopper

    ozcopper Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Yes, sentiment is atrocious at the moment!
     
  4. Ronnie 666

    Ronnie 666 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I know what causes milk spots and they can be removed in many but not all cases without abrasion. I know PCGS has a method which I have used. I also have a method which I have used and then got the coin graded by PCGS without issue. Bron, I don’t know why you refer to bullion coins as proof coins also get this problem. If you doubt me look up PCGS restoration service. The cause is sloppy manufacture. The reason we are not taking the bait is that we have all heard this before. Many causes blah blah. There is only 1 cause and no conspiracy. If I know the cause I bet the mint does.
     
  5. Jim4silver

    Jim4silver Well-Known Member

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    Ronnie666,

    I am sorry but you are wrong about milkspots. I looked up the PCGS restoration services, here is what they say in part (bold and underlined by me):


    "PCGS Modern Silver Coin Spot Policy
    When initially grading modern silver issues, PCGS will deduct for spots that are already evident. If coins spot after they are graded by PCGS, they are not covered by the terms of the PCGS grading guarantee. If you would like us to try to remove spots from your coins by "dipping" them, we may be able to do that. It is our experience that spots on proof Silver Eagles can be removed in about 80% of the cases, but spots on Mint State Silver Eagles will only come off approximately 10% to 25% of the time. We launched the PCGS Restoration Service on January 2, 2013 in which we will remove spots, unattractive toning and other imperfections. Note that we cannot guarantee whether our spot removal attempt will be successful. If the spots do not come out, we will still reholder you coin in its original grade. It will just be a spotted coin of that grade. We anticipate that a two-tier market (spot-free and spotted) will develop, much as it has in the past 10 years or so in the U.S. generic gold market. For further information about our Restoration service, contact PCGS Customer Service after April 1, 2013 or visit the PCGS Restoration page."


    I have personally tried every method to remove milk spots that I could find online, and by talking to several coin dealers who've been in the business many years. There is no cure for milkspots that won't f' up the coin grade-wise. If the removal involves rubbing anything on the surface to remove the milk spot it removes mint luster. If it involves dipping, it won't remove a real milk spot but can correct some hazing, that is why they say on proof Eagles restoration is more effective. I have removed hazing on proof coins several times in the past with dipping - that is not milk spotting.

    Anyone who comes up with a foolproof milkspot removal that doesn't hurt the coin will make millions off their discovery.

    Some "milkspots" that will come out aren't milk spots but hazing that is often seen in the fields of a coin that is proof. I myself can get these out 90% of the time because they are not real "milk spots" caused by the minting process that we've been seeing for the past years.

    If you know of a method that works and wish to share I'd appreciate it!

    PS Mints should revert back to whatever minting techniques they were using a decade ago before the milk spotting became an epidemic. Canadian Maples that are older almost never had milkspots, then all of the sudden.........
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
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  6. Ronnie 666

    Ronnie 666 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    before - Copy.jpg after - Copy.jpg

    This is coin sent to PCGS before sending - white spots at the rim (arrow) - after they are gone and the coin was graded. Yes I know the method is not on the net. Yes you are right you cannot remove all milk spots but you can improve them.
     

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    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
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  7. renovator

    renovator Well-Known Member

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    well ronnie are you going to share this method ? not that i give a toss but im sure many others would like to know.
     
  8. Ronnie 666

    Ronnie 666 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Sorry renovator its not mine to share. All I wanted to get out there is that there are methods to fix/improve this and the utter BS that the mints are trying so hard to fix the problem. The mints know exactly what the cause is and do nothing to address it.
     
  9. renovator

    renovator Well-Known Member

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    Most people here are stackers , its the coin collectors that were worried about the spots bullion is bullion.
    I think we all gave you & the PM a bit of a spray at the time because we felt the PM had dropped its world renown quality standards to equal the lesser mints products for the sake of profits
     
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  10. renovator

    renovator Well-Known Member

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    we need a thumbs down icon. Why woudnt you share it to help others that are having conniptions over the spots . I dont think theres is any patent infringentment or copyrights to white spots is there ?
     
  11. Ronnie 666

    Ronnie 666 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Yes there is infringement and as I don't own the technology I cant disclose it. You can thumbs down me but I cannot change what is. I think you should save your thumbs down for the mints that charge massive premiums especially on proof coins knowing they will soon be destroyed by spots.
     
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  12. Ronnie 666

    Ronnie 666 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    By the way the method is a complex one not a simple back yard job.
     
  13. mistered

    mistered Member

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    Yep, I stopped buying collectibles years ago. Never any resolution or communication from PM. Very worried what I'm going to find whenever I open up the SDB..
     
  14. whay

    whay Well-Known Member

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    Every complex method started as a simple backyard job. It became complex so it can be patented. Follow the money trail......
     
  15. tolly_67

    tolly_67 Well-Known Member

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    MINTSHIELD.....sounds like a toothpaste!
     
  16. silversearcher

    silversearcher Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Maybe the key to this problem is treat the coin before it milk spots.
     
  17. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I just stopped buying Perth Mint coins, problem solved.
     
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