Exactly, I mean I feel sorry for people who suffer from this but again diversification is a buffer, it lessens the exposure. Again I'm sorry but how can you buy into a company that guarantees 12-16% pa AND evaluates their own products, maybe if they were independently graded and evaluated. And then how many actually sat down and talked to a financial planner/s about this?
I would like to try and pass on a few things that may assist others in the future and perhaps some that may be effected and not saying something which is understandable as well. I am sure everyone has an opinion one way or another anyway. 1. Little research - Coin Collecting or Numismatics is as old as money itself, a company that has traded for 30 years and winning multiple awards, also been an inaugural member of the society in Australia, traded in Millions of dollars of the Rarest treasures within Australia and the world. To me this is credible ? 2. "Guarantees" - It was never guaranteed a return of any %, what was written into a lot of the contracts was a "Buy Back" at the price paid ie: No Loss Guarantee. To my knowledge this had been fazed out, anyone who expected this as guaranteed 12-18% increase are mistaken. 3. Diversity - Yes I agree and feel terrible for the people that had a single investment as the majority of their SMSF or savings. However at this stage they still have some title over the goods. If I had purchased and own a Proof 1930 Penny that is still an incredibly rare item, which I didn't. For me it was only a percentage of the fund so I do diversify. However it was a little larger share than what I would have normally allocated. So I broke my rule. I suppose everyone with a normal super account feels they are diversified also. 4. You don't hold it, you don't own it - seems to once again be true and I am sure it may make some people have a think on their holdings and how they have it. Do you have some in un-allocated as example, group storage and so on, why is this any different. I think the general deal here is that nothing is totally safe, what you have is degrees of safe versus likely hood of the occurrence happening. Did I see this happening, no I didn't but who really does. Supposedly all the banks should be broke and countries defaulting, but haven't seen that happen either ? 5. Valuations, yes these were done by the MD who based it on current sales data where applicable, plus expected returns on similar items. It is hard to price an item if there is only 1 ? I would expect to see a lot of items loosing some value, while others not being effected at all. 6. Bad Business - This is an area I personally could have looked into a bit further and did have some comments and concerns about market and how they generated an income. To me this is where their business model has fallen through and not securing new clients successfully and creating cash flow. Without cash coming in "Sales" and you are honoring "Buy Back" prices it will fail. The Silver lining hopefully is that the company has this stock that it has brought back and this stock can be liquidated to pay back creditors, and others debts. People who have not sold their item they own should have it in the vault. The concern is the vault is empty and the money is gone. That would be very bad for everyone. Not sure how many this may assist, or even make me look more stupid. While being a costly lesson learned, as so many other things have been. I have lost money in Property, I have lost money in Silver and Gold, I have lost money on cars. So I suppose I should do what the tide does and invest in shares and keep my savings in the bank, but you know what will happen is the banks will go broke and the stock market will crash. Everyone holding Gold and Silver will be the big winners. When I had sold all my Gold and Silver at $20... At least I am positive in life and the wife is all cool. The family is healthy and we have a roof and food. I say Good luck to you all, I hope it continues to work out for all the perfect people. Aus
The Rare Coin Company entered liquidation this week, with liabilities believed to be in the range of $10 million and a collection of customer-owned stock worth about $200 million. Liquidator Jennifer Low says people who own notes or coins that were stored on the company's property will get them back but the process could take several months. However, Ms Low says it could take years to sell the company's assets and pay creditors, including one bank owed about $3 million, any potential dividend. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-11/fears-thousands-caught-up-in-rare-coin-firm/4814140
When I was in the local coin shop today, I had an interesting talk with John the owner. He showed me the glossy brochure advertising some twenty and ten pounds notes which were being advertised for$20,000 each, an ideal investment for your SMSF...It was claimed that these notes were appreciating and a rate of 15% per annum. Then he showed me notes that he traded...Bought them for around $1700 and sold them at around $2000. Identical notes but the $20000 ones were highly valued by those in the trade...The association of which he is a member were always astonished at the prices they were asking and in some cases doing business. I asked him was there much of a trade in selling U/C notes of pre decimal vintage..He said it was a small part of his business...Maybe three or four per year. It reads great when reading the brochure with such a talented line up of financial advisers.. The worst part is MSM will have a ball reporting on the losses incurred by people with SMSF.. Probably even mentioning people loosing on silver and gold coins. Bundaberg and surrounding towns we estimate may well have a population of 100,000 and he said that only about 30 stacked silver or gold. Now how many would collect high priced pound notes, maybe one or two.? Do any bullion or coin dealers here on SS trade these notes? Regards Errol 43 PS. I hate to see these people suffer because of the BS that often proves too good to be true! .
A very sad story, I personally researched their business and marketing model for months. The only thing stopping me was that I couldnt afford the item/s that I had my eye on. I kept track of sales for just under two years. Gee, can anyone remember the auction for the Quartermaster Collection in 2009? here's a link: http://www.coinlink.com/News/world-...-australian-rare-gold-coins-tops-839-million/ Monetarium performed the auction I think, but it was RCC that commissioned it (or whatever the word is sorry). A lot of the premium items that RCC had in its possession really are top-shelf and rare. It's a sad day for the investors, sorry mates.
The Rare Coin Company purchased Monetarium about 2009, they were quite different entities prior to that.
I think the poor response to GP's invitation to WA stackers to the launch of the PM Horse Launch is a friendly reminder to all how small the Numi and PM community really is. I saw the writing on the wall here in Perth many months ago when I first saw RC's shop close on Hay st and spoke to the young and honest receptionist who revealed way too many home truths. I feel for those who will inevitably lose hard earned cash thanks to the greed and false claims of others. If you live in Perth (the so called boom state) there isn't a decent coin shop in the state. Feebay has all but killed them all. Those that exist are a dying breed, a quick read of Stirling Currency's latest newsletter will only reiterate why they too are next to fold.
Update: Documents released by the liquidator of a collapsed Albany-based rare currency broker, the Rare Coin Company, shows a long list of unsecured creditors and 21 parties which are owed six figure sums. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-22/six-figure-sums-owed-to-creditors-of-rare-coin-company/4834570
You don't hold it, then you don't really own it when it comes to bullion and coins. These unlucky people who bought into the company really just owned a smile and a promise in the end from the Jackman's (the couple who owned the business). My guess is that the Jackman's knew for a couple of years at least that the business was completely unsustainable and I'll bet the Jackman's made sure that they took care of themselves by shifting some of the assets elsewhere. Maybe I'm wrong, but usually that's what goes on behind the scenes of sad stories like this. .
I personally received many emails trying to entice me to invest with this mob in the months prior to their collapse.. Lucky I didn't!
I live not far from Albany, I must have driven past their storefront hundreds of times. I went in once and asked if they sold, or could source bullion grade sovereigns for me, they actually laughed at me, and with an extemely sh1tty attitude, basically told me not to bother them again unless I wanted to invest in the same manner as the rest of their customers. They were complete a55holes during my only dealing with them, so I never set foot in the place again A pox on them, and my best wishes to all those caught up in the scam, I would normally wish them fun aas Bubbas bitch, but it would seem they have walked away scott free to continue life as bankrupts, pretty easy out for them if you ask me
This case (as far as I know) wasn't about the business selling stuff that they didn't have. The business marketed and sold very high end numismatic items and regularly re-appraised their value higher and higher with offers to buy the items back, leading the buyers to believe that their investments were doing well. What that one business said the items were worth and what the items fetch on the open market turned out to be very different things. The kinds of items they were trading in are incredibly specialized to the point where there is a worldwide market of just a handful of people for some of them. If they're not buying, the whole business model collapses.
