Private currencies and Forex

Discussion in 'Currencies' started by mmm....shiney!, May 19, 2014.

  1. Eureka Moments

    Eureka Moments Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Coles and Woolies dominate our retail by buying out or undercutting all competition particularly small businesses and the same would happen with currency.

    1800s trading tokens were tried as alternatives to govt money. People eventually demanded a govt issued currency due to inequality in the value and acceptibility of different tokens.
     
  2. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    Is that actually what happened?
     
  3. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    How would they do that?
     
  4. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    When I was living in Africa, it was common to see street vendors accept different currencies - USD, EUR, GBP, UGD Shillings, KES Shillings, SDD Dinars, and one of the most accepted units of exchange were 7.6239mm rounds.

    Certainly the freedom for people to accept whatever currency they wanted was a benefit to businesses - not a hindrance.
     
  5. Eureka Moments

    Eureka Moments Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Use coles/woollies bucks abd get 4cpl off your petrol, 5 bucks off your next slab at dan murphys abd a 10 buck credit at any if the pokie machine venues they own.

    Same way they take over every sector they enter.
     
  6. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Offer discounts at their stores if you use their money.
    Only give their money as change, send all other money to a bank or warehouse to remove it from circulation.
    Have collectable banknotes.
    License Disney characters to appear on their notes so kids pester their parents to get them
    Sponsor a football team and have the players on their notes so fans can collect the sets
    Give them cool names or themes to encourage Australians to spend a 'True Bluey' or whatever them their marketing team come up with.
     
  7. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    In the electronic age, where money no longer has any intrinsic value, most purchases are done online or with credit cards and most people are in debt, the whole idea of having physical money, which you can misplace, or have stolen is pretty archaic.

    If you have a mobile phone you shouldn't need physical money, shops which don't take eftpos will die out eventually.

    If you buy most of your consumer items from abroad the whole idea of 'Australian' money becomes mute as you aren't buying it with AUD, you earn in AUD but buy in USD, PayPal is just as likely to become the prevalent currency as the USD.

    Reduction of complexity should be the goal, Europe came to that conclusion soon enough, they had lots of different money and decided that one currency would make things a lot easier. They are all made up anyway, might as well all share the same fantasy.

    Once we get our one world digital currency it will be plain sailing.
     
  8. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    @EM and Juislizard

    And is that wrong? As long as the consumer is the winner then the free market should take its course. The ACC interfering in Coles and Woolies discount offer which gave motorists up to 18c off/litre, insisting that the program be capped at 4c/L was a disgrace and an example of what happens when governments interfere in the markets with regulations. It ends up costing the consumer more. It should not be the function of government to prop up failing businesses ie independent petrol retailers.

    Even in the face of overwhelming market dominance from the big 2, retailers and producers have managed to carve out a market niche by being proactive and entrepreneurial. Private currencies can make an attractive product to consumers, allowing them greater purchasing power.

    Except of course when the phones or electricity are down and the eftpos machines don't work, this is OT but a clear example we need physical forms of currency as well.
     
  9. trew

    trew Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Ok Shiney if competition always results in the best outcome for consumers,
    then explain why you are still using a qwerty keyboard on your computer
    while vastly more efficient keyboard layouts and designs have been developed
    and offered to the market over many years but all have failed

    There is no government mandate on keyboard layouts either
     
  10. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    No idea. Must be consumer preference? You tell me.
     
  11. Big A.D.

    Big A.D. Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Yes.

    There are plenty of records and literature from the time available, including the legislation itself. Money, trade, commerce and financial services were all discussed at great length around the time of Federation and you can even search Hansard back to the first day of the first Commonwealth parliament if you care to read what was said.

    There are plenty of numismatic dealers who'll be happy to talk (often for hours at a time) about trader's tokens, notes, scrip, cheques, army and prison issue money and private bank notes that were issued by commercial banks prior to government issued currency.

    As with so many discussion on the libertarian perspective, this is old news. Private currency issues were tried. They didn't work very well. Government currency replaced them. It did work. We kept using it.

    That's not to say that we shouldn't ever question the way things are done, but we should at least have an understanding of the subject's history. More often than not, the answer is there already.
     
  12. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    I'd be interested in some of the literature, not in government hansard though as I wouldn't learn anything of value there, can you point me in the direction of this literature?

    There are plenty of numismatic dealers who'll be happy to talk (often for hours at a time) about trader's tokens, notes, scrip, cheques, army and prison issue money and private bank notes that were issued by commercial banks prior to government issued currency.

    The only reason we keep using it is because it is forced on us. Alternative currencies would not arise if we were happy with our fiat currency.
     
  13. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Yep. The Bank Note Tax Act of 1910 which imposed a 10% tax per year on the issuance of private currency was definitely a decision of the free market rather than imposed by the Government.

    http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C1910A00014

    :rolleyes:
     
  14. Big A.D.

    Big A.D. Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    There's nothing stopping you from offering or accepting other forms of payment in exchange for stuff. People trade that way all the time. Bunnings doesn't currently offer a "Will pay bearer one Ryobi cordless drill upon demand" note, but you can use an AUD$50 gift voucher as a form of currency if you can find someone who'll accept it. Likewise, you can do an off-market transfer for Westfarmers Ltd corporate bonds if you prefer to use more sophisticated private debt instruments in lieu of cash for a transaction.

    As it stands, having a single currency that's universally accepted in a particular jurisdiction is what most people prefer.

    In terms of reading, you may as well start with the Proclamation coins listed in 1800 to deal with the money crises, and then the Holey dollar and dump. You only have to look at an Adelaide Assay Office ingot to see how ridiculously difficult it is to deal with "currency" that isn't standardised.

    Any decent coin dealer should have access to a stack of reading material.
     
  15. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    :O People want some sort of homogeneity when it comes to money. Well turtle me. Who woulda thunk it? Here's an idea. How about everyone does away with those annoying geographic specific imposed currencies and we adopt some sort of global common standard. Thinking off the top of my head it could be based on something fairly rare, doesn't corrode but is easily portable with high value per unit weight.

    Edit: Or alternatively, it can be something limited, secure and electronically accessible and transferable from nearly anywhere on the planet. In our increasingly interconnected world this means people could travel internationally or transact electronically and not bother with annoying conversion fees.
     
  16. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I am happy for a bit of competition, I am sure there is a mechanism to deal with monopolies. Over in the UK a company can use the money it makes from one arm to operate at a loss in another arm in order to undercut all the competition and drive them out of business. After which they can set whatever price they want. The free market can't decide if there is only one player left standing.

    I also have a fine collection of community and private currencies and I am happy talking for hours about it (well, giving a presentation to the QNS) most that do well are shut down by governments at the request of the central banks; Worgl, Liberty Dollar, bia kud chum. They were doing very well, in most of those cases (not the liberty Dollar) they were being used to cover a shortfall in small change, in much the same way Emergency Money is used, Banks were issuing their own small currencies in Italy as late as the 1970s to cover shortfalls in small change.

    If the governement forces you to pay taxes and forces you to use only their currency in payment, refusing to accept other currencies, then I would say they haven't really been given much of a chance.

    They are currently being used in several places in the UK (Totnes, Stroud, Lewes, Brixton, Bristol) and have even been used in Australia, (Nimlets)

    They do work but they take a lot of effort to keep going, the government is happy to employ people to run their currencies and we foot the bill for the service, the people running the small currencies are generally doing it for social benefit not for profit, different focus.

    I am sure if a decent gold or silver backed currency came into play I would hold that and spend the national currency on bills.
     
  17. hawkeye

    hawkeye New Member Silver Stacker

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    Well there is no current world currency. Not really. The USD is a national currency, it's just that, out of all the national currencies of the world it is deemed the safest, most liquid, has a powerful government backing it, etc. That doesn't mean it's what th market really wants. In fact, it worked much better when the USA market was a much bigger percentage of the world market than it currently is. Now that much of the rest of the world markets have developed, the inadequacies are becoming more and more obvious.

    The solution according to our leaders? A world currency of course. Which will require a world government and world central bank. But many, including me, think this is pretty much unworkable, not to mention highly undesirable. You only have to look at the crumbling European Union to know it just isn't going to work.

    A solution is going to have to emerge somehow. And private currencies of one type or another, seem to me, to be the only viable solution.

    Not that surprising. People go running to government for solutions. Whether it's the best idea or not. Happens all the time today.

    What is value?
     
  18. hawkeye

    hawkeye New Member Silver Stacker

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    Nothing lasts forever my friend. That is the nature of this world. The AUD really hasn't been around all that long. What reason do you have to think it will last? And what does that have to do with libertarianism? Many currencies have disappeared in the last century alone. I don't recall any of them having anything to do with libertarianism.

    If by libertarianism, you mean rational discourse using facts and evidence then yes, call it libertarianism if you want. But that's not the definition most of us use.
     
  19. Eureka Moments

    Eureka Moments Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Here's some stuff about traders tokens. A bloke named Stokes seems to have a bit to do with why they were banned.

    My understanding is that he was able to produce large qyantities of tokens cheaper than official coins due to no shipping fees and way quicker. He and the traders were able to profiteer by exchanging or hoarding british currency and forcing their own coins into circulation.

    The issue of validity of even british currency was definitely a problem particularly when banned in Vic. Tokens got shipped to other states where many names etc of traders would not have been readily known and there ended up too many varieties to be workable.


    http://www.australianstamp.com/coin-web/feature/numismtc/trtokens.htm
     
  20. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Fixed it for you guys :)
     

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