Hello, I'm going through the declared mintage figures on the PM site and getting a bit confused. When comparing the descriptions on the website and the mintage figures it looks like sometimes they include coinset or special edition figures in the totals and other times they do not. 2012 Dragon 1oz Silver Proof Website states that "No more than 5,000 1oz coins, 500 kilo coins and 1,000 three-coin sets will be released". The declared mintage figures show that the following were all SOLD OUT. Each of these includes a 1oz silver proof: Single coin package with COA - 5,000 3 Coin Proof Set - 1,000 4 Coint Typeset - 1,500 4 Coin Typeset Japanese Version - 1,000 10 Coin Set - 2,500 This comes to a total of 12,500 1oz silver proofs. I always thought there was a lot less knocking around. Also with the dragon coloured bullion it says there were 170,000 of EACH. Is this correct? Does the bullion in the Chinese 9 coin set (sold out 20,000 sets) and the 10 coin set (sold out 2,500 sets) form part of these totals or are they extra mintage on top?? Do they include the coin show specials or are they even more extras? Some other confusing figures with snakes too. Just trying to make sense of it and figure out the manner in which they "declare" mintages. Cheers
5,000 max mintage in the 1oz proof sets. 1,500 max mintage in the 4 coin Typeset. 1,000 max mintage in the 3 coin proof set. There's no proof coin in the Ten coin set (Coloured), it's a bullion coin. Edit The coloured coins have not been declared yet and we won't know the final totals for some time yet. When viewing the mintage pdf document, don't get confused with "Sales to date" vs Declared.
Sorry, you're right about the 10 coin set, I listed that one wrong. There is a 4 Coin Typeset Japanese Version listed on their 2012 Numismatics PDF and says 1,000 SOLD OUT. Page 4: http://www.perthmint.com.au//documents/2012_Perth_Mint_Numismatic_Coins_2012_Sales_311213.pdf So with this coinset I'm guessing their were 8,500 pieces minted. Really think they should declare all this info on their website where they sell the products rather than making it look like there were less. Yeah I messed up with the "sales to date" and declared figures before.
Also the website for the 2013 Proof Snakes says "For the first time, and by collector demand, The Perth Mint is also introducing the new format of an individual 1/2oz silver coin". But there are mintage figures for 1/2oz silver proofs for 2011 Rabbit (Max 3,000) and 2012 Dragons (Max 4,000). If it was a new size available only in 2013 then the only 1/2oz for 2011 and 2012 should be in the 3 coin sets (Max 1,000), so where have these extra ones come from? PS - thanks for your previous reply!
Perth didn't inform the market of the release of the 1/2oz proof coins, it wasn't until they appeared in Europe that questions were being asked. The 4,000 1/2oz proof dragon coins were "Not" for release in Australia) and are in addition to the 1/2oz proof that can be found in the 3 coin set. Not sure about the rabbits. Perth in their wise-ness have now increased a limited mintage for the 1/2oz proofs @ 8,000 coins (Goats) which has really stuffed the market for the 3 coin set. Folk will remember that once upon a time the 1/2 and 2oz proofs could only be obtained from the 3 coin-set. Perth often produce coins for customers overseas but they do not always advise the market. One would think that, since the coins obverse is struck with the effigy of Queen Elizabeth II and the fact that the coins are struck in Australia that Australian folk would be privy to details about Australian coins but...as we know that is not the case. Very disappointing in my book. Edit The comment re: New 1/2oz Format - For the first time ever this design is now available in a 1/2oz format. Perth felt that the feedback for the 1/2oz proof Dragon (Released in Europe) gave them the incentive to strike the 1/2oz proof snakes. The new 1/2oz format is just Perth's way of saying we now release them as single coins in Australia. :|
Thanks again for the info filled reply! A lot of that, to me, seems pretty deceptive on PM's part! Been interested in the series for a few years and thankfully I've only got bullion issues. Seems that they can just break the mintages and pump out as many proofs as they like whenever they want. I certainly do remember when the 3 coin set was the only way to get a 1/2oz and 2oz proof. I'd be pretty annoyed now if I had any 3 coin sets. Looks like they are kicking their own customers in the teeth and making them regret purchasing higher premium products. Makes no sense. Silver market is volatile enough without throwing fluid "maximum" mintages into the mix. And to release additional proofs into another market without informing Australians is just plain wrong. How can anyone make a sound decision on purchases when they keep moving the goal posts? Another possible one is the 2013 1oz Coloured Proof (Green) Snake. Max limit for these was 3,000 but I can't for the life of me find where their sold or what they were issues for? There was also the 1oz Cloured Proof (Black) with max mintage of 10,000. These were sold individually with box and COA. But no idea about the 3,000 green ones. I'm in the middle of designing (I'm a graphic designer) a booklet-style guide to the Lunar Series II. I wanted to have all the information I need about the series in one convenient place. And I want all the information and data to be as accurate as possible, but PM mintage changes are making it very confusing - hence all my questions above I think this guide might take some time to complete while I try to sort out accurate data. I'm really surprised with PM. The series started out so well and then it just kind of blew up into one big mess of variations in 2012. And those changes are now carrying over to the following years.
The 1oz coloured Green snake "doesn't" come in proof, it's termed by Perth as a specimen coin (Frosted table) when packaged like the World Money Fair- Berlin special (5,000 coins). But...the maximum mintage is set at 170,000 for that particular coin. The 1oz coloured Yellow and Black "is" a proof coin and has a polished table. (Max mintage 10,000) The declared mintage for the coins will be when the maximum mintage has been declared or Perth decide to Declare the coins before the maximum mintage is reached. The "sales to date figure" is dated 28 April 2014 and is no indication of "actual" sales to date as of today. Perth update their pdf mintage documents randomly and I suspect the next update will be in the first half of 2015.
Checked my archive and found the Japanese Typeset. The red coloured specimen coin has been replaced with the coloured proof as you can see in this image.
Cheers for that. Nice find with the Japanese version! Interesting they replaced the specimen colour with a proof colour for that set. With the snake coloured proofs the PM pdf has the following sales to date as of April 2014: 1. Snake Green 1oz Silver Bullion Coloured Lunar Coin (Max Mintage 170,000) (Sales 36,520) 2. Snake 1oz Silver Proof Coloured Lunar Coin (Max Mintage 10,000) (Sales 7,582) 3. Snake Green 1oz Silver Proof Coloured Lunar Coin (Max Mintage 3,000) (Sales 2,000) So it looks like there is a green proof out there with a max mintage of 3,000. But there is no mention of it anywhere on the PM retail site. Double checked the Berlin coin show special and that's definately the specimen as you said with a max issue of 5,000. So the green proofs didn't go there either. Also, with the standard 1oz bullion, the max mintage is 300,000. Does that include the 1oz standard in the 4 coin typset or are they an extra 1,000 pieces bringing the total to 301,000? (Or 302,000 for years with Japanese sets)
Scrap that last bit about the standard bullion mintage. Retail site says the 4 coin typset is included in the maximum mintage of 300,000. Plus I meant 1,500 issue limit, not 1,000 - that was the Japanese version which I presume is also included in the maximum mintage. I really need to figure out how to edit posts! Can't see an edit button anywhere. Question about the green snake proof still stands though.
Unfortunately, that's the nature of the beast. If Perth get a large enough order for a particular coin or coin set, they'll generally strike it for customers with deep pockets. Are you going to include the Chinese sets in your booklet guide? Are you aware of the snake coloured silver and gold Chinese sets? Maybe the green coloured 1oz proofs are contained in a special investment set or....??? If they are out there they may pop-up sooner or later. Have you contacted Perth re the green proofs?
Chip, I briefly saw your message about the edit button yesterday, but didn't get a chance to reply. Thanks for the info! Holdfast, thanks for that. I've sent an email to PM about the proof green snakes, so will see what they come back with. Yeah I am including all sets that I can find info about. I knew there was the Chinese set for dragons, but no, I didn't know about the one for snakes!!! I'll have to go find info about that set now. Wonder if there was one for horses too? I really Wish PM would include details of ALL sets and packaging they have released in their PDFs. And sometimes they have a note saying a coin may have been sold in different packaging but the figures about are totals. Some other years they don't have this note and its difficult to get the figures to match up without accounting for them splitting the figures indivdually. If that makes sense?! 2012 2oz coloured snake is a good example. It says total mintage is 39,000 and then it also lists the Perth Coin Show special 2oz coloured as having a total mintage of 1,000 bringing the total 2oz coloured to 40,000. But on all other years they have the 2oz coloured total mintage listed as 40,000 but then go on to also list 1,000 Perth Coin show specials. In these years I am presuming that 1,000 is part of the 40,000 otherwise the total would be 41,000 with it 1,000 more than the dragons. Just wish they would pick a method for detailing mintages and stick with it across all years.
Yes, there's various Chinese sets for the Horse and also... Goat which include coloured gold and silver coins. Edit - Add images
The 2oz Horse "Proof" is extremely rare! Many folk are use to the ANDA 2oz coloured coins which are issued with the frosted table. In 2014, Perth issued the first coloured 2oz proof ANDA coin. Most collectors have been selling these coins very cheap but there's only 1,000 in existence. All of the 2oz ANDA coloured lunar coins prior to the Horse are...as above...they have a frosted table and of course are specimen coloured coins. So...the discrepancy is, that... instead of 40,000 coloured 2oz Horse coins there is a potential mintage of 40,000 x 2oz coloured Horse coins plus 1,000 coloured 2oz proof coloured coins (Perth ANDA Coin Show Special). Most dealers don't even know what they are selling :lol: If you have a 2oz coloured proof ANDA Horse, you have the key coin to the ANDA series because it's the first 2oz coloured proof struck by Perth. You heard it first on Silver-Stackers!
