Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Clawhammer, Jan 5, 2016.
Western nations are Christian
I think you had better google the word 'secular'.
Vague as a concept though it is, Western culture/civilisation is a product of Mesopotamian/Greek/Roman antecedents, but for the last 1500 years, the greatest influence is arguably Christianity. <Opinion> The freedoms and respect for people that is a hallmark of Western culture is a product of Christian ethics and teachings. Even if the 'Western' countries are notionally secular, their moral rudder comes from Christianity </Opinion>.
Most of the people in 'Western' Countries grew up in some sort of Christian tradition, even if some number do not consider themselves Christians.
There may be a good reason for the signs but it's not a religious one, it's a racial one.
Seem to recall a tradition of buggery within the Greek/Roman antecedents. Modern Rome also seems to have set aside a place for a religious group who continues to follow this tradition.
I was talking about the ones that are religious. Most are.
Muslim immigrants integrating well in Sweden.
Swedish police give up and do not police Muslims ghettos. Muslims ghettos are now self governing areas.
Far from it. Many people are agnostic and as such they firmly believe in the importance of a secular government. They would get very upset should you suggest to them that they are a 'Christian' country.
This would pretty much cover most Western countries.
Just because members of a government attend a church does not make it a Christian country.
No different to a country with a majority of Muslims. They are not a Muslim country. In many cases they have a group of people in power that use the religion as a tool to conquer and control.
..they all look desperate, and don't want to live here:
and back when:
I'd move too given half a chance.
As for the source of the 'Muslim gangs take control of 55 zones in Sweden'
Well let me tell you about a newspaper widely read in Victoria back in the 70's.
Who can forget those personal stories of your everyday bloke, minding his business at the bus stop when the gorgeous blond approaches him for wild and crazy sex.
Ah yes the 'Truth' newspaper.....not a word of a lie in it.
Do you know what happened to those journalists when the newspaper ceased printing?
Probably writing for 'patriotsunite' or maybe 'islamtruth'...or maybe 'stopjihadi'.....such quality journalism.......much like we see posted here from time to time.
Tolly, Christian based values are different than Islamic values. A study of both doctrines will show that Christianity teaches that killing is wrong, lying is wrong, the individual has worth in the eyes of God and that government is separate to church. Islamic doctrine teaches that killing is the pathway to paradise, lying is obligatory, no individual has atonomy and Islam IS the perfect state for its doctrinal provisions for governance, law, judiciary and policing. Allah is the opposite of the Christian God.
I am not sure what 'doctrine' you are referring to......perhaps the ramblings of some crazy mullah perhaps. As for your so called Christian based values....would that include the detonation of nuclear warheads on to cities predominantly filled with non-combatants.....or maybe firebombed into obliteration......do you think Christ would agree that 100's of thousand of innocents needed to die and it was 'justified'.
This is just one example...history is littered with examples of so called 'Christian' values being responsible for innumerable deaths.
I reckon that's close enough - he lived about 1400 years ago
Tolly, I am comparing the written and publicly available doctrine of both religions. It is fairly simple to check what the doctrine says. I, like many others, say you can draw a line between belief and behaviour. Islam teaches that there are two ways to paradise. One is to kill the infidel and die a martyr. The second is to migrate to spread Islam. It is easy for gentle readers to check. Christian based countries have laws that are loosely based on the ten commandments (and then some, but that is a matter for another post). Islamic countries have laws that are mainly based on Sharia law, depending on whether Islam is the state religion. I say that any reader can check the doctrine to see what it says about the big issues: killing, lying, apostasy, redemption, law, worth of the individual and ethics. This is a good article that got me thinking about each of the main religions. Facing God. http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/260737/facing-god-danusha-v-goska It touches on areas that I had not previously considered and is worth a read just to take your brain for a bit of a walk.
I have read that Bukhari's edition of the Hadith is the most reliable. The Sira is the history of Mohammed, and the Koran version that is most reliable can be chosen from the following: Q: Can you recommend a good English translation of the Qur'an?
RS: N. J. Dawood's is the most readable in English. However, most versions do not mark the verse numbers precisely. Some non-Muslims don't like it because he uses "God" for Allah, although since Arabic-speaking Christians use "Allah" for the God of the Bible, and have for over a millennium, this is a problem for poseurs and pseudo-scholars but is not really a serious objection to anyone who knows both languages. Also, many Muslims dislike this translation because Dawood was not a Muslim, and doesn't sugarcoat any of the passages. Two translations by Muslims, those by Abdullah Yusuf Ali and Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall, are generally reliable, although both write in a stilted, practically unreadable pseudo-King James Bible English. Of the two, Ali's contains more liberties with the text such as adding "(lightly)" to Sura 4:34 after the directive to husbands to beat their disobedient wives. The Arabic doesn't say to beat them lightly, it just says to beat them. Pickthall's is generally accurate.
There are other good translations.
The Reliance of the Traveller is a good book to use to learn about Islamic law.
The Koran I have read cover to cover is N. J. Dawood's - very readable - recommended. I have a number of others to refer to / compare with (The truth of translation should be somewhere in between), but the others are heavy going as a read. Dawood was an Iraqi Jew - so a native Arabic speaker, unlike most non-muslim translators.
I had not heard of 'The Reliance of the Traveller'. It seems that the main (only?) translation into English conveniently left out the section on slavery (arguing that it is not applicable to modern times - but more likely just unpalatable).
The hadith is enormous though.
Nope, cos those who killed thousands were not listening to the teachings of Christ. @[email protected]
i.e. "So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets." and "You shall love your neighbor as yourself"
I doubt those guys who nuked Japan yelled "Jesus Ackbar" before pressing the button.
If they did anything of the sort, even something realistic such as making an announcement that it is gods will *presses nuke button*, then they would be using the lords name in vain. :|
Many people have probably heard of the case of Edward Mortara popularised by Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion (essentially the Pope declared it illegal for non-Catholics to be raised by Catholics, and something as simple as a babysitter "baptising" a toddler by sprinkling some water on their head and mumbling some magic words meant that the Jewish toddler was now deemed to be "Catholic" and therefore was stolen from his parents).
Lol not racial at all but sexual lol, middle eastern men are "known" to be women abusers in the eyes of many SE Asian people and there must be something in it because they are banned from brothels go go bars and beer bars throughout SE Asia!
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