Orwellian Carbon Tax Fines Hit Australians

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by ozcopper, May 28, 2012.

  1. Lovey80

    Lovey80 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,504
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Sunshine Coast, QLD
    What do you mean externalise the cost? What exactly is the cost for pumping CO2 into the air and who is paying it? You still go into these debates with a Pre-biased faith that CO2 and global warming are true, yet nothing has been observed to support it let alone prove it. The governments biggest high profile parrot Tim Flannery has already been PROVEN wrong on a number of these predictions.

    Again, in supporting a financially unviable technology we are prohibiting the free market from allowing precious resources being diverted to finding a financially viable long term solution. How do you justify that?

    Edit to
    If AGW was far more likely than has already be proven AND every single cent of this CO2 tax money was being sent into R&D into a more viable alternative then this tax could be justifiable almost. On both counts we are far from that and any Polly supporting it should be charged with Treason.
     
  2. REDBACK

    REDBACK Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,849
    Likes Received:
    783
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Great response and you are clearly offering alternate ideas in a constructive way.Though i don't agree with you on a lot of issues Carbon tax,global warming,alternative energy sources such as solar etc -kudos to you for putting alternatives out there as well as opposing opinions.
    REDBACK
     
  3. Shaddam IV

    Shaddam IV Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Messages:
    8,049
    Likes Received:
    4,783
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    House Corrino
    Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant. Anyone who tries to tell you that it is either has money to gain from having you believe that or they have been suckers by people cleverer than they are.

    When I was at school the science said that we were heading towards another ice age. The scientists that said this had nothing to gain by lying, they were simply looking at the evidence. The science now says that we are heading into a drowned inferno.

    When some prick tries to tell me that "The Science Is In" I have to ask "which science?" The science from the scientists looking solely at the evidence before them, or the science from the scientists who get funding and keep their jobs only if they say what they are told by those higher up who are not scientists, but who have billions to gain from taxing the atmosphere? Or the most common form of science in the 21st century - The scientists that the media make up. If you own a media empire you can invent scientists and put words in their pretend mouths and no-one can stop you.
     
  4. REDBACK

    REDBACK Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,849
    Likes Received:
    783
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Any body in the Solar panel installation business knows that panels are a big con,here in Victoria any way as i can't speak for other states as rebates and supply authorities have differing agenda's.
    It takes 4 hours of research to discount Solar/Wind power as a viable alternative to coal generated electricity.
    Its purely a political and personal feel good,in many ways an energy placebo.
    Correct me if i'm wrong(As i stopped trying to burst peoples feel good bubbles unless they are clients about to waste 5-30k) but rebates dropped in VIctoria by half for all new installs?
    The figures never stacked up prior to this rebate reduction for Government subsidised grid fed panel installations the rebates have just gotten worse.
    Final point maybe not on SS with its suave sophisticate of commentators,but there is a lot of confusion in the general community regarding the difference between a Stand alone solar system and a grid fed solar system.They are worlds apart in application,functional usage and cost effectiveness.
    REDBACK
     
  5. CriticalSilver

    CriticalSilver New Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,725
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    :lol: remember they're the same pricks that tell you to drink fluoride.

    Drink it up fellas.
    :lol:
     
  6. Water&Food

    Water&Food New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Messages:
    2,361
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Away from this hell bent place
    well i pay for solar panels and i get no DIG rebate
    cost of being DIGGIN ignorance and DIg

    Rebates end in QLD 30th June 2012 btw ;)
    and i am so DIGGIN tempted to get a taste of dat
     
  7. Shaddam IV

    Shaddam IV Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Messages:
    8,049
    Likes Received:
    4,783
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    House Corrino
    Soon after reaching high school I stopped believing creepy guys in big, imposing buildings who said "you must give us money, control of your life and control of your thoughts and we will protect you from the Scary Invisible Thing In The Sky". Now Tim Flannery is trying to do the same thing.
     
  8. Big A.D.

    Big A.D. Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    6,612
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Sydney
    Tell you what: I've got some bottles of food-grade CO2. I'll release it into a room and you can decide whether you think that would be a healthy place to hang out.

    Everything is a pollutant in high enough quantities.
     
  9. Fykus

    Fykus Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
    562
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Port Macquarie, NSW
    That might be so but would putting a tax on that room full of co2 make it any less dangerous?
     
  10. fishball

    fishball New Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,627
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Shin Sekai Yori
    Supposedly taxing the CO2 provides a disincentive to pump that room full of CO2 (or our atmosphere) in the first place.

    Not that it will stop people who don't give a shit (eg. China).
     
  11. Fykus

    Fykus Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
    562
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Port Macquarie, NSW
    Not so much a disincentive if you can just palm off that cost so some other person who is forced to pay it.
    but alas
     
  12. Shaddam IV

    Shaddam IV Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Messages:
    8,049
    Likes Received:
    4,783
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    House Corrino
    Would I die of heat-stroke first or be drowned by the rising sea level in the room? :D
     
  13. Big A.D.

    Big A.D. Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    6,612
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Sydney
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I've tried keeping it short and sweet here before and was dismissed regardless. 'credibility' is 100% subjective in the eye of the beholder and regardless of how much sense you might make or what facts you have to back you, the 'credibility' is still just subjective opinion to many.

    My ideals and philosiphies already challenge the establishment, so I'm already fighting a losing battle before we even begin to make a point.

    I don't think it'll come as a surprise the collective doesn't think of my 'credibility' in any sense. The fact I'm arrogant in my belief system just compounds the issue. Doesn't mean I'm wrong, either.

    Does it matter what I think?

    I'm trying to convince you your established negative is a positive. Why bother? You don't see the merit in the philosiphy in the first instance and what's more, you tie credibility to your relationship with said philosiphy, so it's completely irrelevant how one might surmise the situation - it's still wrong by simple association. I tire of having to constantly fend off personal attacks for what I believe in around here.

    But it's no different to the rest of the world that attacks everything which questions the status quo, yet laments the state of the world and why no one can provide the answers for why it's such.

    The same sort of mindset that can't understand why I am so snide, caustic and pissed at their ignorance.

    That said, care to elaborate on what you do and don't like about her work? I often find the biggest protagonists against Objectivism are the people who have never read her books, never studied Aristotle beyond reading a synopsis or watching some critic in the media do the same thing or a book cover summary.

    Either that or that take the work at it's literal meaning and not recognise it's a philisophical work, rather than a simple yarn.

    You miss the point of context. I can throw down succinct sound bytes all day, but the level of ignorance on the background information/philosiphy where I draw those points requires clarification and context for the point to make sense in the first place.

    But since we've already established out of hand the foundation for those points stems merely from the ideals of a looney in the first instance, it's rather a moot issue, wouldn't you say?

    So we pretty much end up back at my original point where if you're not towing the status quo established style of thinking, you are by default 'a looney'



    Ironically, most of the wider populace thinks the same thing of you for holding precious metals too and we lambast their ignorance here daily over the issue.
     
  15. lucky luke

    lucky luke Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,852
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Qld
    I don't think self describing yourself as "arrogant" is something to be proud off like a merit badge. Often is the case that it's a serious personality flaw.

    Your not Robinson Caruso on that point. The only difference is that you make it sound like its something special for you to have to constantly fend off personal attacks while for others its not noteworthy. What makes you more special than others in having to fend off personal attacks?

    I'll leave the rest of your post alone.
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    It wasn't a point of merit. I'm being realistic about my position. The difference is, I don't care about it. As for whether it's a personality flaw (more personal attacks?), it's again - subjective and in the eye of the beholder. I don't stand around worrying about what you or anyone else things of me LL, that's the difference.

    I don't consider what other people have to do. It's irrelevent to me. I speak only from my own perspective and that's all I care about.

    Well that and the fact that anytime I make a fkn post on this forum, someone invariably singles it out - attacks and attacks until GP has to come in and throw down a lock.

    Seriously though, this forum is more mainstream than many are willing to admit.

    Once Ag cracked 20, the landscape here changed and whilst it's definitely a precious metals information hangout, undoubtedly it's a mainstream idealists' paradigm that forms the bulk of discussion here and anyone who has the audacity to challenge the status quo... look out!

    You'll be a looney, who's arrogant with serious character & personality flaws in 4 posts.

    'nuff said IMHO.
     
  17. Lovey80

    Lovey80 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,504
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Sunshine Coast, QLD
  18. REDBACK

    REDBACK Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,849
    Likes Received:
    783
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Ayan Rand,Hitler and Stalin.I guess they all had...some good points.
    Personally i will always single out Condescending posts and call the Author out and i expect the same circumspection applied to myself.
    Have a nice day
    REDBACK
     
  19. Lovey80

    Lovey80 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,504
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Sunshine Coast, QLD
    Hey Redback, I'd be interested to know what ideals Rand has that makes you put her in the same category as Hitler and Stalin?
     
  20. REDBACK

    REDBACK Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,849
    Likes Received:
    783
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Sorry,where did i mention ideals?
     

Share This Page