NSW water crysis

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by leo25, Aug 2, 2018.

  1. sodl

    sodl Active Member

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  2. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    That will happen when there is almost no water, just like the last water shaortage in Sydney and Melbourne.
     
  3. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    That's going to be a lot of very long pipelines from the desal plants.

    This climate business reminds me of the old saw on going broke: Slow at first then very fast.

    Horrifyingly depressing article from the NYT magazine on how humans almost saved themselves. Now it looks very doubtful.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/08/01/magazine/climate-change-losing-earth.html

     
  4. sodl

    sodl Active Member

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    It is really simple to solve the water crisis. Just seed clouds with silver iodide and create rain when and where it is needed. You have to look at the bigger picture to this and ask why this advanced 50 year old cloud seeding technology is not being used.
     
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  5. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    because it doesn't work if there are no clouds plus it's a hazardous chemical.

    Water shortage is not a big issue for big city dwellers, if there is no water in the dam, we can always tanker in Water until bigger dams and desal plants are built.

    Look at Dubai, before desal plant people lived with water shipped from around the world.

    Note: We already bring a lot of bottled water from overseas.

    As for uneducated and hopeless farmer starving their stock, they should be fined for animal cruelty and banned from faring livestock for forever.
     
  6. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I think you should understand how it works first. It doesn't magically make water/clouds. It just allows you to have some control when the clouds start to rain, but the right clouds have to be over your head in the first place.

     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  7. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Less than 1% of Australia's agricultural land is irrigated. That means more than 99% is non-irrigated. Good math hey? :D

    Dryland farming in Australia is successful because we have large holdings that are highly mechanised and farmers employ advanced water efficiency practices which combine to keep production costs low by world standards. By necessity, our farming practices have evolved to maximise efficiency in our variable climate. In other words, we don't need irrigation in order to be competitive as our dry land techniques work most of the time.

    https://www.oecd.org/tad/events/Mr....productivity growth reforms opportunities.pdf
     
  8. Ag bullet

    Ag bullet Well-Known Member

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    go ahead then, try running a business that grows anything other than meat, or broadacre crops without irrigation. there would be much less fruit and vege available and it would be of much poorer quality. bugger me, you can't even grow a backyard vege garden without watering it. if you know of somewhere where you can, can all the output of the irrigated products be grown there instead? let me guess, not enough of it? not suited for most crops?

    alot of the high value produce is grown on that 1% you speak of.

    we turn over $1m from 10 acres with tomatoes (depending on prices). to turn over the same with wheat or meat you need much more land and more importantly the land type is much different. the production of high value produce requires good land and water. you can't grow tomatoes, capsicums, apples, stone fruit, lettuce, broccoli, cucumbers, strawberries, you name it, etc on a commercial basis on anything other than land suited for each crop and without irrigation water. with something like meat, land type and water is not so important, that's why it can be produced in so many different land types from semi arid regions of which there is vast amounts, to lush grazing on king island.

    i'd like to see figures for gross economic value output per acre, high value irrigated crops vs meat/broadacre
     
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  9. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Hence the reason, in drought many bad cattle and sheep ranchers complaining about the lack of rain and how it is killing their herd, with their handout again for the millionth time.

    Not realising it is thier own cruel careless animal husbandry and management that is killing their herd in a drought. RSPCA should get involved and ban those farmers from ever owning livestock.
     
  10. Ag bullet

    Ag bullet Well-Known Member

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    i get it now.......your from north sydney
     
  11. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Exactly. Australia’s agricultural resources in the main lends itself to non-irrigated land. The infrastructure required to turn over $1 million from 10 acres is not economically viable in most parts of this country or it would be the norm. Your situation is not the norm.

    We don’t have a comparative advantage in irrigated farmland compared to other countries for a very good reason, it’s far too costly.

    Turnover is a different beast to profitability. Is the cost of the infrastructure required to provide water to irrigated farmland borne entirely by farmers or is a large part of it borne by taxpayers with little skin in the game in the main decades ago? I would argue that irrigated farmland is heavily subsidised by taxpayers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  12. Ag bullet

    Ag bullet Well-Known Member

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    what, family business with 100 acres of arable land to allow for crop rotation, water infrastructure, some tractors and equipment? it is the norm where i am because the whole district does it.

    'the norm' is subjective just like the 'value' of water.
     
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  13. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Costs are not subjective, they are quantifiable.

    I don’t want to create a conflict with you, but have you ever quantified the cost to taxpayers of your water allocation resources?

    There are many industries in Australia that receive government subsidies, id argue that the agricultural industry is one of them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
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  14. Ag bullet

    Ag bullet Well-Known Member

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    we aren't allocated water. our water comes from our own dams which catch overland flow from the property. last year we produced about 300 tonnes of tomatoes from about 10 megalitres. IMHO, the product and economic activity is a net benefit to society. the water was already in the dams, should we just do nothing and let it evaporate or pump it over the wall at a cost to us and let someone else make a profit from it? it's not allocated water that must be allowed to flow downstream.

    thanks for the civil debate. one sword sharpens another.
     
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  15. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Yes I live in NS but I also have private investments in a station.
    Shiity family farmers who didn’t destock should be banned
     
  16. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I like that turn of phrase.
     
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  17. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    @Ag bullet , I was just assuming you accessed public water infrastructure which I shouldn’t have done. My concerns about burdens on taxpayers naturally don’t apply to your situation then.
     
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  18. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    On the topic of Australia's comparative advantage, this article identifies the key traits primary producers and the environment in this country exhibit, which makes our farmers world leaders in their field, or paddock :p pardon the pun:

    1. Australian crop farmers (are) absolute misers in the use of inputs like pesticides and fertilisers, because potential yields are insufficient to justify high levels of expenditure on crop inputs. It has also resulted in the highest adoption levels of minimum tillage in the world, because of the cost savings associated with this practice. Australian broadacre crop farmers are world leaders in grain yield per millimetre of growing season rainfall or unit of fertiliser.

    2. the large areas of land available for grazing livestock. Australia’s climate means that livestock can be grazed on pasture year-round, rather than having to be fed and sheltered over winter, as is the case for much of Europe and North America. Australian sheep and cattle farmers have also introduced improved pastures, rotational grazing and grain finishing to improve livestock productivity, while remaining highly cost competitive in international markets. The quality of Australian livestock, in combination with world-leading standards of biosecurity, welfare and animal health makes Australia very competitive in global livestock export markets.

    3. The scarcity and tradability of irrigation water in Australia has encouraged farmers to be very efficient at growing irrigated crops such as cotton, rice and sugar. For each of these, productivity levels on a per-hectare or per-litre of water basis are either very close to, or equal to the best in the world. And despite popular opinion, high-value annual crops like cotton and rice are ideally suited to Australia’s variable climate, enabling farmers to maximise production when water is available, and to avoid planting crops in dry years.

    4. Deregulation. The dairy sector, for example, has gone through a difficult restructure post its deregulation in 2000, and is now experiencing sustained export growth, despite low domestic milk prices. The horticulture sectors have struggled to compete against imports over recent years. Many Australian food processors have closed down, resulting in the demise of the domestic fruit and vegetable processing industry. As a result, fruit and vegetable producers have been increasingly restricted to the domestic fresh market, although some have managed to increase exports.

    5. Minimal agricultural subsidies has resulted in a business environment that is absent from political interference, meaning that farm managers have a great deal more freedom and flexibility in making business decisions that other heavily subsidised markets have to endure.

    6. There is plenty of evidence to indicate that not only are Australian farmers highly skilled producers of food and fibre, but they are also exceptionally good business managers.

    7. The innovativeness of Australian farmers. These have included minimum tillage, genetically modified crops, digital farming technologies, advanced livestock breeding and genetics, precision irrigation systems, electronic livestock identification, remote sensing systems, and the growing use of computerised decision support tools.

    The article goes on to argue some steps required in order to maximise Australia's comparative advantage. The majority involve increasing government expenditure in infrastructure and research. Nonetheless, it's a good read and our primary producers have a genuine round of applause from me.

    http://farminstitute.org.au/ag-forum/optimising-australian-agricultures-comparative-advantages
     
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  19. sodl

    sodl Active Member

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    Australias climate/drought has been deliberately geo engineered for a number of years now. Geo engineering stops rain !
    I have looked into this previously. You can see daily on the radar the geo engineering taking place from various locations around the Australia.
    The big picture is that these droughts are deliberate and our spineless politicians allow it to occur and will deny it is even happening. Our politicians are controlled by the global elite who want to drive farmers from the land then buy up the land cheap and then work the land themselves. The elite will also control all water resources in time including dams and creeks etc on private property. So in time they control our food and water which gives the elite control over the population.

    https://www.activistpost.com/2018/02/geoengineering-end-game.html

    https://www.bing.com/search?PC=SL08&q=drought+geo+engineered&first=11&FORM=PERE

    Our federal and some state and local governments politicians employ a company called The Rand Corporation to advise them on various policy matters . The Rand Corporation is owned by Rockafella/Rothschild so our governments are being directly advised on policy matters by the global elite. Rothschild/Rockafella also run a programme called Resilient cities. Sydney and other major Aust cities have signed up to Resilient Cities programme. There is a big , long term picture to Resilient Cities also and it is not good. California is a good example of the Resilient City programme programme in action.



    https://www.rand.org/australia.html

    http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/vision/towards-2030/resilient-sydney
     
  20. sodl

    sodl Active Member

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    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018

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