New Slabs To Fit HIGH Relief (90mm).

Discussion in 'Modern Chinese Coins & Medallions' started by barsenault, Aug 17, 2015.

  1. barsenault

    barsenault Well-Known Member

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    Gatito, one of these is coming your way my friend!! I have 3 more PF69's, if anyone is interested.

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  2. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    What is the greatest thickness that can fit into the fattest NGC slab?

    Does NGC have plans to provide slabs for even thicker medals than they currently have that you are aware of?

    You should know....after all, you are probably a household name to some at NGC! :)



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  3. Gatito Bandito

    Gatito Bandito Active Member

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    Holy poop, that new kilo fatty is INSANE! :lol:


    I just hope it doesn't take much more away from the viewing pleasure, since the medal is probably in there deeper now.

    Glad they finally came out with it. Assuming the sole reason is Chinese medals? What other pieces would go in there, otherwise? I can't think of any.


    Looks like 90mm brass Mammoth should fit in there now. As should 120mm GuanYu (just 80mm is good for me & my wallet, LOL).


    Now they just need a medium fatty, inbetween a kilo & a standard, to accomodate things better like the 50mm Mammoth.


    Anyway, looks like you were the 1st, b!

    4 graded total -- all 69..

    http://www.ngccoin.com/coin-census/...chm-the-great-wall-world-heritage-coinid-1041
     
  4. Gatito Bandito

    Gatito Bandito Active Member

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    My god, man.. What are you trying to slab?? :lol:


    I honestly don't think they need to go any thicker (at least for now, LOL)..

    Did you see those photos? I think it's safe to assume that this new kilo fatty can fit anything currently out there.
     
  5. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    I am not so sure that a 120mm high relief medal will fit in the new fatty slab.

    Is the 90mm size slab the largest NGC has to date???

    If yes, they need to start work on designing / producing a slab that fits at least a 120mm medal. I have at least a couple in that size that I'm interested in sending in for grading.



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  6. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    I just got off the phone with NGC and the woman who answered (might be Becky) stated, in response to my question, that currently the largest slab NGC has is one that can hold a 120mm coin with a max thickness of 15mm.

    I'm almost certain that my brass and copper 2012 Snake Dance medals will not fit into these slabs. :(



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  7. Gatito Bandito

    Gatito Bandito Active Member

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    "NGC offers an oversized coin holder for coins and medals that are too large for the NGC standard holder. The NGC Oversize Holder can accommodate coins up to 120 mm in diameter and is available in three different thicknesses, up to 15 mm. It is ideal for everything from classic multiple thalers to modern kilo coins. The standard NGC holder is used for all coins up to 45 mm.

    NGC is the only grading company to offer an oversized-holder option. It incorporates industry-leading security features: it is sonically sealed, includes a tamper-evident joint and a security hologram. It is also made from the same materials as the holder NGC developed for the Smithsonian Institution, designed and tested for optimal long-term preservation.

    The fee for the NGC Oversize Holder is $20 per coin, in addition to the regular submission tier price. Oversized coins may be submitted under any NGC tier, and the standard minimum requirements and value limits apply for each tier. Additional turnaround time may apply.

    Questions about the Oversize Holder? Please contact NGC Customer Service."


    http://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading/holders/oversize.aspx


    This is the same wording that's been there for a while.

    Could be wrong, but I don't believe it's been updated yet to increase the 15mm max thickness..

    Judging by the photos, looks like the new kilo fatty can do 20mm or even 25mm?
     
  8. Gatito Bandito

    Gatito Bandito Active Member

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    She might not yet be aware of these new kilo fatties.

    I believe the 15mm limit was for the old thickest kilo slabs.


    Again, look at the comparison photo..

    I have a hard time believing that it can accommodate only 15mm.
     
  9. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    Barsenault, what say you? Are those fatty slabs brand new and can they accommodate medals thicker than 15mm?



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  10. barsenault

    barsenault Well-Known Member

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    No question in my mind that the new slab will work missing!
     
  11. Gatito Bandito

    Gatito Bandito Active Member

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    mmissing,

    I still have my 80mm GuanYu with me, as I want to look at it a bit longer before putting into long-term storage.


    It's in the "old' thickest kilo slab, which I believe is represented in the comparison photo in the OP.

    It has 3 white "trays," and in total measures about 22mm thick. That number also includes the 2 protruding "lips" of the clear acrylic shells.

    When you have this "old" kilo slab in-hand & start visually adjusting these measurements to accommodate these "extras," one can reasonably assume the 3-tray variety can fit those medals up to 15mm thick.


    Now, take a look at the photos of this new kilo fatty -- it has *five* white trays!

    That's not to say it can necessarily fit 67%-thicker medals, due to other variables. But that's definitely placing it in my earlier post, of a range between 20mm to 25mm (15mm x 1.67).


    Again, very happy to see these come out. I believe they can fit every Chinese medal out there today -- even those big wonking ones, like 120mm GuanYu, 90mm Mammoth, 2012 Snake Dance, etc.

    But my concerns are as follows:

    - Will it block some of the viewing pleasure / lines of sight with some of these medals which have an extreme difference between low point & high point? Because the low points will now be sitting in much deeper with this new kilo fatty.

    - Storage space. Enough said. ;)

    - Finally, perhaps if b is willing to share.. Do these new slabs cost more for the submitter, above & beyond the other kilo slabs?


    For all the reasons above, I hope NGC uses these quite judiciously. And if they don't charge the submitter more money for these compared to other kilo slabs, then there's that much better of a chance that they'll use these sparingly, only when they deem absolutely necessary -- which is a good thing.
     
  12. barsenault

    barsenault Well-Known Member

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    i have to be honest, it is tough to take pictures because of the mirror like surface (reflections), but trust me, they thick slabs are awesome. I hve the 90mm Unicorn & Boy and it looks aweseome. I think it looks better in one of these than having it raw, and in the pouch. No question.

    The cost was the same 17.00 for grading, 20.00 for upgrade. 37.00 all in.
     
  13. andrewlee10

    andrewlee10 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I send few 90 mm to ngc china. Wait to see any new casing. The cost in China is higher than usa since agent charge admin fee for handling grading
     
  14. Gatito Bandito

    Gatito Bandito Active Member

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    Here's what might be leading to some questioning & confusion..


    From what I understand, there are 2 *kilo*-sized slabs, depending on diameter..


    - One fits the small kilo's, with a diameter around 100mm..

    Example: http://www.apmex.com/product/91600/2015-australia-1-kilo-silver-koala-ms-70-ngc

    I've seen these used with 70mm & 80mm Chinese medals.

    In fact, you can even see "100" etched on the inner round cut-out of the white tray, as well as on the clear inner spacer (which fills in the gap between the smaller medal & the 100mm white tray).


    - The other fits anything with a diameter between 100mm to 120mm..

    Example: http://www.apmex.com/product/72275/2011-mexico-1-kilo-silver-libertad-ms-69-ngc

    You'll notice that there's a lot more extra "white space" on either side of the coin & label, even though the Libertad is larger than the Koala by 10mm.


    And from what I understand, the third oversized slab that NGC mentions can accomodate multiples of those old larger German/Austrian (?) talers, for example.

    I've seen them in passing, holding like 2 or 3 coins. They're basically long & narrow slabs, and not widely known or seen, I presume.


    Anyway, that covers the diameter part.


    For the *thickness*, those white trays inside can be stacked in certain numbers, as can be seen in the OP photos (3 trays for the original one, and now 5 for the "kilo fatty").

    NGC does this to keep those interchangeable slab components down to a minimum (to keep costs down), while still maximizing the number of medals that they can grade/slab (for more profit).

    Since it appears the clear acrylic outer slab casing is composed of two pieces (a deep bottom one, and a shallow top one), all NGC needed to do was have an even deeper acrylic base manufactured for each of the 2 different kilo sizes -- which can now accommodate 5 white trays, instead of just 3.

    They can even use the same shallow one for the top, as nothing changes there.


    Hopefully that all makes sense, LOL.

    Might help if you've got a kilo slab in hand..
     
  15. Gatito Bandito

    Gatito Bandito Active Member

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    Plus all that shipping, of course (China to US, NGC shipping, and shipping to the retail customer).


    You 2 guys need to get into the shipping business, instead. Proably more profit.. :p
     
  16. Gatito Bandito

    Gatito Bandito Active Member

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    Wow, wow, WOW!

    You know, you see the photos & videos, but it's still not quite the same as when you have them in-hand.


    There's so much more detail & 3-D depth perception.. I never realized until now just how "far back" those mountains in the distance really are.

    The stacked & staggered relief -- on both sides -- is pretty amazing.. Just follow from the mountains in the back, slowly winding your way closer / down to the foreground. Pretty extreme difference between the lowest point & the highest point, with all sorts of levels & weavings in between. Very nice, very sexy.

    Shanghai did a great job. I'm liking this! :D


    The new kilo fatty slab isn't really all that overwhelming.. Helps that I have large hands, I'm sure. But definitely more than just manageable.

    I still think you lose a bit of the "experience," as you miss out on some of the angles / line-of-sight.. But that's true for any slab. If the budget were there, I think it would cool to have both a slabbed & a raw version of each medal, for the best of both worlds. But that's not going to happen with my wallet anytime soon, LOL. Personal choice, but slabbed still wins out overall, hands-down, IMO.

    With the new kilo fatty, it really does work in this particular case. And yes, now that I have one in hand, I'm confident this new thicker slab will definitely fit those mega EXTREME ultra-high reliefs with even the largest medals.. NGC has done good.


    Which leads me to this:

    How do the 300g Ag Great Walls even fit in the thinner kilo slabs??

    There's a bit of breathing room for the brass, but a lot less than I thought there would be with this thicker slab.

    I know it's the same diameter, but is the Ag version just not as thick as the brass?

    If it is, then it must be a really tight squeeze, because I think you'd have a hard time with even just 4 white trays when it comes to the brass.

    Perhaps those currently with both Ag & brass (hi, b!) can do a side-by-side comparison someday & chime in.


    Anyway, the Great Wall is highly recommended! :cool:

    If Ag is out of the budget, at least go for the brass. Everything about it, from the design, the details, the relief -- even the packaging -- makes it a really impressive piece.


    P.S. I never noticed in the World Heritage booklets until today.. What's this about 600g gold medals?!? :eek:
     
  17. andrewlee10

    andrewlee10 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I have not see the gold in person even the medal photo.

    It might be private sell.
     
  18. Gatito Bandito

    Gatito Bandito Active Member

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    barsenault must be hogging them all for himself.. ;)


    You know, just thinking out loud, here..

    I'm trying to visualize 600g of Au, which is about 19.3 ounces.

    I think I have a pretty good grasp on it, and I just don't see it coming out to the same thickness as the brass version of this medal.


    I'm also visualizing 300g of Ag, which is about 9.65 ounces.. A little less than a 10-oz coin. And I don't see it coming out to the same thickness as the brass, either.


    Also consider this: Gold is about twice as dense as Ag, which is why it requires twice as much weight to "size up" with Ag.


    Now, all 3 versions are 70mm, per the booklet.. so the diameter is fine there.

    And I'm pretty positive they use the same dies for all 3 -- in fact, I can't imagine that they don't.


    Finally, since apparently the Ag version can fit in a 3-tray slab, while it takes the brass a 5-tray (and I'm not so sure it would even do 4)..

    One is led to believe that they simply use a thicker hunk of brass, than they do for gold & silver.

    The relief on each is all still the same -- just that there's more metal mass in the center of the brass.


    Only way to really tell is by having an unpouched raw of each, side by side.

    Could be wrong, but I'm guessing the Au & Ag versions are just thinner. Certainly nothing wrong with that, and you don't lose anything visually as the dies are the same.

    Just that I don't see how else this would all make sense.


    Anyway..

    Do you think now that these new kilo fatties are out, that the Chinese mints will enter an arms race, of sorts, with NGC -- and try to produce even higher relief medals, so NGC has to eventually create an even thicker slab? :D


    Coming in 2016.. From the Shenyang Mint.. With a relief measuring in at a whopping 37mm.. "The Volcano"...

    :lol:
     
  19. Gatito Bandito

    Gatito Bandito Active Member

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    Not to be out-done by their competition..

    Coming in 2017.. From the Shanghai Mint.. With a relief measuring in at a mind-boggling 42mm.. "Mount Everest"... :cool:



    P.S. Kilo fatty slab is approximately 34mm thick on the outside. :)
     
  20. mmissinglink

    mmissinglink Active Member

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    ...not to be outdone by the 2018 "Olympus Mons" Maximum High Relief medal measuring in at a breath taking 114 mm! :lol: :p



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