I received my first fake panda , a 1996 10Y , the first thing i noticed was the capsule was wrong for a 90s era it looked more like the new ones (which in itself is not conclusive), second was the date, the numbers were no serif like the 1999, third the mirrored finish looked wrong for a 96, fourth the frosting was alittle scattered on the polished parts like it was bead blasted, fifth the fur on the bear was wrong it was polished shiney with little texture, sixth the temple top was wrong different than any I have seen and a few other things. Luckily I am new to the 90s pandas so I look very carefully at each one and have graded ones and pictures to compare. Overall the coin looked very nice and someone that just glanced at it wouldnt think twice. I made the seller aware of this and they agreed to a refund so I sent it back. Judging from the other items they are selling mostly american coins I assume they did not know it was a fake . Just a heads up for anyone getting a 1996 panda.
Do you have pics (for future reference)? Finally the 1996 fakes are surfacing, used to be worth so little it wasn't worth the hassle to fake.
I will try to post a picture later , last time I tried to post a picture it failed but i will try, I think the more fake coin pictures out there the better so people know what to look for. I should have checked the date right from the start before I purchased it because as far as I can tell there is only two varieties and this is neither . Still alot to learn.
Can you put the sellers ebay name. If he dont know he is selling faking pandas is ok. But is better to know he have one fake and can have more fakes.
Source: OK here is a picture of the temple side it is a bad photo but it can give you an idea. I tried to post the front as well but it said error wrong file type which is the same as this so I dont know what the deal is. I could try to post it. I wont tell the source of the coin because I do not believe they knew it was fake most of the coins they were selling are american coins eagles and commemoratives , this was the only panda I am guessing they traded or something and had not a clue . I think it would fool alot of people unless you either know pandas really well or compare it and look close. The stairs are also wrong.
Sorry to see you get hosed silverstar1 but hopefully you didn't spend much on this coin as it is definitely 100% fake. My first observation is that in the first row of posts there are three on this coin and it should be four. My second observation is that on the stairway there are "designs/drawings" on this coin when it should be smooth for this 1996 year. It's unfortunate but as we have said about a gabillion times fakes are prevalent in any area that someone can make a few dollars. It doesn't necessarily have to be a high value item as is obvious with the 2012 Silver Panda fakes out already. The 1996 is a common panda that has flooded ebay for the last year I spent about all of 30 seconds and found at least 3 or 4 in OMP for about $95 to $100 from legitimate dealers/sellers so yea vigilance is a must in any area of numismatics whether you are buying a $40 ASE, $100 Chinese Panda or $2,000 Goldfish set. Stick to reputable dealers and the odds of getting faked out are slim to none. Good luck on your future purchases bud !
Thanks comeaux, actually I dont think I got hosed , the seller said they would issue a refund and I just sent it back. I actually was glad at the chance to see a fake in person, its funny my wife said I almost seemed excited about it, I wouldnt go that far. I have dealt with coins and PMs for about 18 years and newer pandas , but i just recently started collecting the 90s era pandas, a year ago or more I wouldnt buy a 90s panda for spot price even a ms 69, and I sold many ms 70s I wish I hadnt now. I guess I go through phases but the pandas have a certain alure and it is fun trying to get different varieties. I have to disagree generally on getting them from reputable dealers which might sound strange,but hear me out. I have got some really good deals buying from random people on ebay (sampling) and I look at them close if they look like they will grade at least a ms 68 I send them to be conserved and graded and as of yet most have come back with high grades some perfect, none have come back ungraded or fake. Some have an iron spot or white spots, head rub ect. and I just toss them in the omp pile. On the other hand every panda I have bought from"reputable dealers" in omp have been low quality crappy looking coins with problems and mid to high price and obviously they are looking close as well and sending me coins they dont think will grade well. I am in it in the long run to make money , so far I have found I am way better off buying from random people and at least a 50/50 chance there is a really nice overlooked coin. Of course there is more chance of a fake but if most of them are anything like this one they will be easy to spot as this one has everything wrong with it. I will also generally only get coins I can return if it is a fake and only coins from the USA so if I do have to return it I dont have to pay for express mail . And with the exeption of 2 dealers I will never buy from china.
Glad to see it worked out for you silverstar1 ... Yea well whatever works for you is what you need to stick with for sure, if it aint broke don't fix it.
Amen brother, I agree with this statment 100%. Who hasn't been burned by a 'dealer'? The short answer is noone, especially when starting out. Mine was a '00 frosted 50Y from londoncoinshop, capsuled, not in OMP... that's how long ago I bought this coin Mirrored fields had scratches, actually more like gouges, on it. A decent individual might've disclosed this in the ad (they didn't) so the buyer new the coin had been tampered with. I won't sell the coin on, it's melt value only, but it is a rare coin and I'll keep it for historical reasons... or sell when gold gets REALLY expensive. Thanks for the observation silverstar, yes, there are rules in MCC but there's also exceptions when buying. America must have many. many gem bears in its land still owned by ordinary folk. I'd love to snare some as they surface.
Maybe the definition of "reputatble" varies from country to country but my definition is dealers who sell quality coins Maybe I'm just lucky or good (probably both) but the only "reputable" dealer I have got fcked by on more than one occasion does not live in the US (Asia) and is revered by many as "great" !!! Well I'm done with his "washed", "baked", "resealed", over-priced coins. Other than that I stick to my sources
Mr Reseal heh Unfortunate that he does it, he's got a great variety of coins that can't be found online.
Thanks guys, yes i see your point on the definition of reputable dealers, reputable SHOULD mean high quality coins I hope you see my point as well. As far as "mr reseal" this is a perfect example I have bought a few coins from him and I dont think they were resealed but they were obviously looked at carefully and did grade poorly.I cant necissarily blame him sending me lower quality coins but I probably wont be buying from him in the future. I look at it as the opposite when i am selling coins that I have several of, i try to pick a very nice coin and hope by doing so I wil get a happy customer and future business . Some companies are different and if they can make a few extra bucks one time and lose a customer for life they go that route. The thing that bothers me about the resealing is that it can end up getting reciculated and the end buyer and seller does not know that it has been resealed. This is just what I am thinking now and i may change my mind in the future as i am always learning. When i used to read tamo42 s post about conservation and grading I thought he was full of crap and why should a coin need to be cleaned and conserved but now I fully agree with him and am very happy with the results. As a side note off subject, it seems there is getting to be less OMP coins on the market and more and more graded ms 67 and 68 coins out there is anyone else noticing this or is that the way it has been for awhile? What a great forum!!!
My definition of reputable is the same as yours, it's just a shame it sometimes takes a while to find 1... Certainly have now hooray. Thought he'd be fine as he has a lot of slabbed coins. Beware the guy with a lot of slabs, why is this one not? should be the question. Agreed on your second point think you pretty much nailed it!
Even more sad when you find a reliable dealer or in my case multiple reliable dealers but they don't have what you want :/ But that's out of scope of this thread :lol: Mr. Reseal = Xu Hong... although I have not had any problems from him ever (yet).
Source: Here is an honest reseal! I have no idea if this the omp for a 1999 no serif but they did a hell of a job on the resealing with a hot knife or something...
Yes silverstar this has exactly been my whole argument about resealing coins the whole time on this forum and on CCF. The more this practice continues, spreads and escalates to more dealers then before long nobody will truly know if their coin is actually OMP or a very good "reseal" complete with seals that replicate the packaging identical to the mint it was produced from. I know some people who enjoy collecting OMP and this kind of nonsense is a slap in the face to them. Then it seems some (one) dealer gets a "free pass" from a lot of people and they look the other way whereas if anyone else was caught they would be hung from their toenails and beat into sub consciousness with a wet carp. I also agree with grizz about some dealers who predominately sell graded coins but then you see the random coin being sold raw I always raise an eyebrow on these dealers pulling these hat tricks. Yea but I know where you guys were both coming from because I too have seen the "reputable" dealers who unloaded crap for coins totally agree on the points you were making. I was referring to dealers that I have dealt with several times that I always get a good deal with. Referring to what grizz said about finding American sellers with hidden gems. I have a few times and especailly when I came across one selling a few odd coins from the collection of a relative. He had mostly US coins but I noticed two pandas sleeping quietly in his stack. It turned out to be two 2000 frosted's in OMP that I scored for $175 each and they both graded MS69. Those are the deals I'm always happy to find
I begining my panda collection in capsule. Later in omp. And when more i read more think is better to buy ms69 or ms68 than omp. But its a long path to learn this. When i have time. I will grade my 1 oz silver first complete collection (withouth the big3). And i will saw what happen is i scored well coins for lucky or not. Now im buying ms69 or only omp if i think the seller is trusted. Have a lot of good deals for ms69 for less or a few bucks than omp.
