Modern Monetary Theory

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by mmm....shiney!, Sep 14, 2019.

  1. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2011
    Messages:
    9,812
    Likes Received:
    2,460
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Pulau Alor ;)
    I never thought you were wrong in anyway, Huawei will goes on, the economy will continue to grow, there was a hick up due to Wuhan
    done well above many, eg 6%, but there are still so many to be done and get done, it better be done quicker....
    looking back when the main cities were growing so rapidly, Hk will be left behind, so if nothing is done... HK will really be backward in the next 20 years
    why would they nationalise the housing market, the govt can be building their own too
    the capitalist, would just let the private sectors bankrupt
     
  2. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2011
    Messages:
    9,812
    Likes Received:
    2,460
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Pulau Alor ;)
    why would I defend it ???, just let the building collapsed on its own
    so long there are big sign, for people to keep a safe distance is good enough for me
     
  3. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2011
    Messages:
    9,812
    Likes Received:
    2,460
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Pulau Alor ;)
    hope it can come to silver too, few thousands % of inflation on silver would be GREAT 10X
     
  4. sgbuyer

    sgbuyer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 25, 2018
    Messages:
    2,857
    Likes Received:
    1,562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Singapore
    They have started testing it in certain markets. Banks finance SOE to buy back apartments from the market and rent it out cheaply at a loss.

    They can build their own, but after 20 years, the abandoned projects will become an eyesore just like the ghost buildings of the asian financial crisis still standing in Malaysia and Indonesia.

    Why waste resources when you can just print more RMB to buy back the empty buildings?
     
  5. sgbuyer

    sgbuyer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 25, 2018
    Messages:
    2,857
    Likes Received:
    1,562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Singapore
    hk is a colony. philippines aspires to be one. they are doing very badly now from what I’ve read. Indonesia is doing much better despite hit by the virus.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
  6. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2011
    Messages:
    9,812
    Likes Received:
    2,460
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Pulau Alor ;)
    we can check with Pinoy stacker, last time we met two :) back in 2011-2013 I met a few hundred people, buy/sell/trade kopi etc
     
    sgbuyer likes this.
  7. sgbuyer

    sgbuyer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 25, 2018
    Messages:
    2,857
    Likes Received:
    1,562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Singapore
    Actually, I'm not so sure, don't think the American empire can withstand another 8 more years of Obama-like shit. This is the reason why I'm in gold, to hedge against that scenario. Either way, I'm ok as I don't depend on pm to make money.
     
  8. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2010
    Messages:
    3,635
    Likes Received:
    1,908
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Some comparisons of government spending around the world. John Maynard Keynes would be shocked and disgusted at what China is doing.

    China spends too much, while Australia spends too little. :p



    gov spending.jpg
     
    66rounds and mmm....shiney! like this.
  9. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Messages:
    13,639
    Likes Received:
    3,125
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Australia
    Japan disproves all predictions for economic collapse based on fundamentals. The game is an online casino.
     
    66rounds and sgbuyer like this.
  10. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    20,681
    Likes Received:
    3,660
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    昆士蘭
    Or it proves the fundamentals.
     
  11. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    20,681
    Likes Received:
    3,660
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    昆士蘭
    Stephen Moriarty: Australian private debt is high because the government hasn’t spent enough to allow growth.



    Im not behind his argument that a fixed amount of currency circulating eg sound money prevents growth in wealth, maybe he’s making that comment in relation to our modern monetary system, but he’s pretty spot on about the other stuff he says.


    My view:

    The private sector has carried the burden, whilst the government has absolved responsibility. But I think that is changing, which may also mean Scomo will be difficult to dislodge.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020
    leo25 likes this.
  12. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2010
    Messages:
    3,635
    Likes Received:
    1,908
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A fixed currency doesn't prevent growth, but it does greatly reduce it. Now that can either be a good or bad thing depending on your view of growth.
     
    mmm....shiney! likes this.
  13. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    20,681
    Likes Received:
    3,660
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    昆士蘭
    He was making the point that without injecting new money into the system (and this is where I’m not sure whether he’s referring to our current system or not) the amount of currency remains the same, is just recycled amongst people and no one gets any wealthier.

    Every exchange of currency for a good or service and vice versa results in a corresponding increase in wealth, as economic players trade currency/goods they own which they subjectively view as being of lesser value for currency/goods which they desire and subjectively view as being of more value. All of this can happen without an increase in money supply under a system of sound money, and still result in a perpetual increase in wealth.

    I also disagree with him that our needs/wants are finite. Bill Gates will still have a need to expand his philanthropic activity long after he’s funded the last known vaccine required and I’ll still have future demands to satisfy that I’m completely unaware of having any current need to satisfy. :)
     
  14. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    20,681
    Likes Received:
    3,660
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    昆士蘭
    I guess we just have to ask: “Why is it essential that the currency supply keep increasing?”.

    I can only answer that it’s because the value of the currency is decreasing.

    But that’s almost a chicken/egg scenario. :eek:
     
  15. heartastack

    heartastack Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,357
    Likes Received:
    889
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Idaho
    The thing is a factory owner will mostly always need to loan money to significantly expand operations, knowing that the ROI justifies the investment. The creation of money is required to fuel this level of growth.
     
    mmm....shiney! and leo25 like this.
  16. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2010
    Messages:
    3,635
    Likes Received:
    1,908
    Trophy Points:
    113
    From a starting point it's not essential, but our current system was designed to have inflation in order to achieve accelerated growth. This is a choice and not a fundamental law.
     
    mmm....shiney! and heartastack like this.
  17. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2010
    Messages:
    3,635
    Likes Received:
    1,908
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think the reality is somewhere in the middle. It might not be as low as he described, but it's not infinite either.
     
  18. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    20,681
    Likes Received:
    3,660
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    昆士蘭
    This is why I’m thinking his comment was in relation to our current system, as opposed to say a system that Austrians would propose for example.


    Isn’t that the problem we have with a centrally planned economy, the decision makers think they know what every one else wants? ;)
     
  19. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    20,681
    Likes Received:
    3,660
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    昆士蘭
    Under a system operating on the principles of sound money the loans are provided by savers forgoing present consumption for future consumption.

    Which of course can’t happen now. So we get speculation, asset inflation and devaluation of our purchasing power and wages.
     
    willrocks likes this.
  20. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2010
    Messages:
    3,635
    Likes Received:
    1,908
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Maybe he just meant that a fixed money system could never achieve the high levels of growth as an inflation based system.

    I personally think a fixed money system is just as bad as the unlimited money system we have today. A mid point would be best, but humans struggle achieving balance.
     
    66rounds likes this.

Share This Page