Modern Monetary Theory

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by mmm....shiney!, Sep 14, 2019.

  1. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    You stated low birth rates are bad, so therefore you are saying high birth rates are good. The chart is showing countries with high birth rates and the result is bad.

    So you then have two options. You can either say birth rates have nothing to do with the success of an economy or you can say lower birth rates are good. But you can't say low birth rates are bad. This is basic logic.
     
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  2. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Screen Shot 2020-09-11 at 9.25.35 am.png


    Now at least we're getting somewhere.

    Opening statement from that Wikipedia article:

    1. Yes, Japan is currently in a recession - due to the coronavirus, an external black swan event, not as a result of fiscal/monetary policy. As one of the articles in the bibliography of the article you cited clearly states https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...th-quarter-virus-clouds-outlook-idUSKBN20A0SS

    2. From that same reference comes this chart which shows that Japanese GDP actually grew in 18 out the past 24 quarters measured.

    Screen Shot 2020-09-11 at 9.34.54 am.png

    3. The rest of the articles cited in that Wikipedia article (with the exception of the Pecotich and Schultz reference) are at least 10 years old and are therefore irrelevant and outdated as they were written prior to Abe's re-election and the longest period of economic expansion since WW2, which basically means that Wikipedia article is useless.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  3. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  4. Stoic Phoenix

    Stoic Phoenix Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Ummm..you seriously don't see the correlation?....wow...ok.

    Im not going to sit here and point out the glaringly obvious flaws in your lack of logic or inability to process simple information that clearly refutes your opinions.
     
  5. sgbuyer

    sgbuyer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Japan's birth rate is not as bad as what you will find in Singapore, Macau and HK. I've only been to Japan once but I was surprised to see a lot of kids. Haven't been to South Korea though so I can't comment.

    The mainstream media likes to portray Japan in a bad light, for whatever reason I don't know. Japanese women are excellent mothers. In Singapore, the men have to look after the kids - I'm not joking.
     
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  6. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I was very impressed with Japanese mothers too, they take their job very seriously. They understand it's one of the most important jobs in any society and their society values it. Unlike here in Australia, where many mothers dump their kids into a brainwashing daycare system only to do a useless job so they can buy an overvalued house.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  7. JohnnyBravo300

    JohnnyBravo300 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure the japanese people are good people.
    I just cant figure out how you are coming up with prosperity by stating GDP.
    Government debt or spending does not equal prosperity and they dont go hand in hand. Especially when the govt is already broke.
    It only equals stagnation and more debt which they have had for decades and still going downhill.
    Same story for everyone else.
     
  8. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    It's just one measure of prosperity, with all its faults. There are a number of others. I guess in order to compare different nations you firstly have to reach some common metric and GDP with all its flaws happens be to one we currently have.

    If you're not happy with GDP the indexes such as the Legatum Prosperity ratings are probably the next best alternative.

    Edit to add: and remember governments can't go broke. They can make money until eternity.
     
  9. JohnnyBravo300

    JohnnyBravo300 Well-Known Member

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    When has making money until eternity ever worked?
    The romans probably thought the same thing.

    Maybe one example where it's ever been done would help your point.

    It's never happened because it cant because fiats have a life cycle.
    From inception to implosion they always fail with no exception and there are many examples.
    I just need one example of where it has worked?
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  10. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    The Romans had a commodity currency. Their currency was linked to a commodity therefore it was constrained by the availability of that commodity. Every other commodity currency was the same.

    And now we don't have commodity currencies. Haven't had them since the early 1900's. They won't fail unless the State fails. And the only way a nation State like the US, or Australia or the UK or Singapore is going to fail is either if it voluntarily ceases to exist or if there is an uprising by the people. And that won't happen either because the State has the guns, it has the authority and it has the consent of the people unfortunately. So fiat currencies are here forever and ever and ever and ever and ever until the State ceases to exist. Their life cycle is an eternal one.

    Things are different now. Fiat currencies have evolved like a virus and the only cure is to destroy the host. Which aint gunna happen. Doesn't mean you have to like it. It's just the way things are now.
     
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  11. JohnnyBravo300

    JohnnyBravo300 Well-Known Member

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    Rome did have a commodity currency until they devalued it. Then it became a fiat.
    Partly silver but fiat the same. All the same I'd agree.
     
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  12. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Their fiat currency became worthless because Rome was teetering on the verge of collapse (which it eventually did).

    Who wants money from an Empire on the point of ruin? The US, Australia etc are not at the point of ruin, they're not in any way on the verge of a collapse and it's highly unlikely they will and their currencies are in demand worldwide.
     
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  13. sgbuyer

    sgbuyer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Maybe someone should come out with a corona virus freedom index? Sweden did well in the herd immunity approach but had horrendous fatalities earlier on. Japan didn’t have any lockdown, they practically ignored the pandemic even earlier on because of the Olympics, but fatalities are a fraction of flu. Japan would rank number one with a huge lead followed by Taiwan. If we rank on performance given the medical infrastructure available, India will rank number one.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
  14. sgbuyer

    sgbuyer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    The mainstream media likes to paint it black and white, when in actual fact, the present world is much more complicated than that. If you consider all the various powers that are counteracting with each other, the dollar isn't going anywhere, at least for now.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...ssian-400-missile-system-191118094700059.html


     
  15. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    John Adams talks about the new scams the RBA and government are implementing in order to keep (ignorant) people believing the current economic theory. It would be so much easier and better if they could just admitted MMT is here and stop with all the BS shell games.

    Who are they fooling anymore anyway? It's like a kid literally watching his parents put the gift under the tree, but the parents still insisting it was Santa. This is getting really pathetic.

    Start at 18:30
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
  16. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    A great video with Luke Gromen. He talks in detail about what is happening/changing in the economic system.

    One of the biggest scams governments and central banks have pulled is making people believe inflation was hard to achieve. Truth is, low general economic inflation was by design.

     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  17. Jason1

    Jason1 Well-Known Member

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    Im not here to defend fiat, but i think you could have picked a better argument. Because one could easily rebutt your argument with.

    the fall of the roman empire had nothing todo with fiat.

    From fiats inception to now we still have fiat, so over all it hasnt really failed. Yet
    The brits are running on 300 years for theirs, so i think that counts as one example you were after.
    There are individual examples of countries curencies failing but not fiat world wide and there hasnt been any examples of fiat world wide being lost completely.
    Lets face it, unless we go back a few thousands years and start trading exclusively goods for goods or goods for services locally and in person trades for 100% of all our transactions, or prepared to negociate with your employer how many tomatoes per hour you get for your service, or how many hours you have to work to receive a sheep or for a bag of rice, then There will always be a need for a trading currency aka fiat as lets face it, you can actually trade it easier globally than older currencies like gold and silver hence why they made fiat in the first place
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  18. JohnnyBravo300

    JohnnyBravo300 Well-Known Member

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    The Brits have lost 99.5 percent of purchasing power. That's a huge fail and still ongoing. Not successful in any form.
    Ancient rome destroyed themselves mostly through devaluation of their coins. It caused every financial problem that eventually bankrupted them.
    Before their money was worthless they were a superpower and dominated everywhere they went.
    Once they went into economic ruin they were easily conquered and it all fell apart.
    Devaluation of their silver is a form of fiat.
    The fiat the world uses now is since 1971, all of the central bank controlled countries at the same time went on their own fiats all connected.
     
  19. JohnnyBravo300

    JohnnyBravo300 Well-Known Member

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    Actually I'd argue that the old system really did die in 08 and weve been on a completely new system now.
    The Endless Bailout monetary system.
    A trillion is the new million.
     
  20. JohnnyBravo300

    JohnnyBravo300 Well-Known Member

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    The pound sterling also became fiat in 1971 so it's not 300 years old. Just the name stayed the same for 300 years.
     

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