spot is moving higher, sure with limited supply, the dealers would want to wait and see as well. they are there to supply as well as make some money, its a fair game. No one would want to just see spot move up another $5 and has no horse to sell.
if the dealer says "we have stock at $40/oz" - no problem - that's their business, their money at stake. if dealer has no stock and starts moving price for not available coin - I smell bad business behavior. spot hasn't moved that much to justify price increase from 36 to 39 ...
It's more of inventory, and adjusting for demand. I.e. if a dealer had 1000, that they expected a sell out in 2 weeks time, but they sold 500 in a single day, they adjust price to reflect demand. Supply/Demand make up price here. Unlike most coins, if you haven't already gotten your order in, you're not getting any/any more. So this is being treated as coins in hand as dealers already know the max they're getting, unlike a normal situation where say if they sell out, they can always order more.
bad business behaviour would be, we sold out at spot, when we sold out, our price would be 10- spot :lol: not the opposite. joking would be, selling for 45 when next restocking someone is selling his 3 coins for 150 :lol:
As a dealer and on a personal note. I can't see bullion bourse doing anything wrong at all. The horse 1oz coins price move with supply and demand like any other market. Supply is limited demand is high so the price has to reflect. Like the banana situation a while ago when we were paying 10-15 dollars a kilo! If you dont think its fair dont buy, the price was that high because someone else will buy it. Also when dealers have to buy from thr secondary market they are obviously paying more than what they would normally pay hence price increases. I think were all pretty fair on this forum (dealers) , we're not ripping people off! Wait till the Americans release their price, you will be surprised! (this is based on what I have been told the price will avg by the big boys)
To be honest with you, I was expecting the horse to be release through dealers with a $40 price tag but to the credit of some dealers, they listed a few at $36......( some more and some less ) and now you want to knock them for raising their price......thats pretty harsh guys. Look at GoldPelican....he went to the extreme and sold his first allocation at spot.....but do you think he will sell his next allocation at spot....I don't think so......(I'm sure GP will correct me if I'm wrong ) I personally think the main problem lies with the Perth Mint, with most of the allocation going abroard ...... and leaving local suppliers to fight over a limited allocation......hence having the need to spread their allocation. Put yourself in their shoes.....if you know you can sell a coin for $40...why would you sell it for $35 ( I know what I would be doing ) Also there may be a hand full of us that show loyalty to site sponsors......but the reality is, most will spend their money were their going to get the best bang for their buck.....most of the time it will be a site sponsor but not always ( and there's nothing wrong with that ) ...... but don't expect or think dealers owe us anything just because we are ss......I too believe we get some great deals from our site sponsors on a regular basis. Basically if you collect series 2 1oz lunars, you will know that any price under $40 is a good price for lunars.
bullion list sold out at the listed price and never moved the price higher (at least I didn't notice it) bullion money - the same bullion bourse is unique in this action ... increased price on not available coin which they sold already and have little chance getting from P.mint. How can you increase the price on something you don't have? It is not supply/demand - it is making people believe the coin is rising in price already. At least they corrected themselves and deleted the listing ... looks like the understand the point I raise here. For me out of these three dealers the best option was bullion bourse as their price was reasonable, coin selection was ok, shipping charge not bad, paypal was accepted (big plus for me) ... but now they have no advantage over german dealers that offer the same deal at the same price as bourse gonna offer (if it is $39 it doesn't make sense to buy from bourse). I'll wait a week and see if anything changes before making a move. P.S german dealers started to increase the price for stock horses when they had about 20-30 coins in stock (asked several dealers at the time about coin availability). They moved the price very slow, not like 8% within a day. Now compare it to coin with 300k mintage and supply /demand issues.
it's funny how: a) we forget dealer is in the business to make money b) dealer can't charge decent premium...but hang on...when we sell...we can justify charging the extra premium...because of supply and demand? lol... Personally, we have not seen anything yet in regards to Horse coin launch...wait till that One day in September...and give it a week till the ripple effect reach EU and US...and when it hit us back in Aust...we will say...what are we sulking about during pre-sale.
Guys, I have no problem with sellers increasing the price, As I wrote - It is their money and their busines.. The problem is the seller increases the price on sold out product ... the sold the product at 36 and after sold out the made the price tag 39, making new comers to believe that the price started to go up. It is called market manipulation. Replace coin with stock and maybe you'll see it more clear.
Please read this from bb's subforum I assume you mean the 1 oz silver horse? We cannot get any more from Perth Mint directly, Australian dealers typically only have a small percentage of the total worldwide mintage. But, we will most likely be able to pick up some more over the next few weeks, from the secondary market, unfortunately they are likely to be priced higher for that reason. Thanks... They sold out their direct allocation from Perth mint at $36. Anything they sell subsequent will be at a higher price because they have to source it from the secondary market. This has also been stated by GP to be the case with GS. So I don't see where your argument lies.
Please, read one more time what I've written. Before they came with this message they had a listing of sold out coin increased in price (1st they had it sold out at 36 ... in several hrs they changed the price of already unavailable coin to 39 with the same sold out sign ... then, they deleted the listing). So, I assume they understand their wrongdoing or noticed my messages. How can you increase the price for the coin you already sold out? It has nothing to do with supply and demand - the manipulation is the point here. looks like people from different universe are discussing the issue here ... maybe change the thread to the place where people discuss manipulation so that people could grasp the idea?!
Yup sorry I did see what your argument is after I posted. I think it's because I don't see how you can call it market manipulation. If they don't have the stock and are not taking back orders at that price, it's not a valid market price. If it's not a valid market price, how can it be manipulation?
you see, you have two ifs ))) how do things change if they do have the stock? ))) ok, price is good, business is there ... no manipulation, everyone is happy topic is closed for international buyers - carefully search around - there are places with pretty good deals
Here in Europe we have seen prices drop. First at 30euro, then more dealers started to list them, so later that day cheapest i found was 26,15euro. That was before silver went up. Now 26,90eu. Cheap when you look at snakes, dragons,... Expensive when you look at Kooks, panda's,... And also, 1/2oz priced at 12,80eu, the 1oz still has a large premium
Yes, including 7% VAT. But i think many dealers kept pretty high premiums on the Kookaburra as well. I bought some 1 oz horses at 27 before the price went up and and some around 29. Including shipping i think i got a pretty fair price anyway, and they could have been more expensive. Grabbed a few 1/2 and 2 oz also. Better price, but its always the highest premiums on the 1 oz coin of course. I dont think prices will go down much more on the 1 oz coin and think they will go up soon. Horse and dragon are the most popular lunar coins. And it wont be long until the Perth Mint have sold them out and after that, and when dealers sold some coins premiums will rise.
As recent as a week ago APMEX in the US had bullion 1oz Dragons for about $44 USD - not sure of current pricing or availability, but as a sanity check, I would use that as a pricing ceiling for Horses - ask yourself why you would pay more for a horse than what a dragon goes for 2 years after release. Don't get caught up in the hype!
Gainesville currently has the 883 1oz Dragons for $17.99 over spot. http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/pro...ilver-perth-mint-year-of-the-dragon-coin.aspx I am surprised at people getting caught up in the Lunar horse hype. I would have thought that the extent that the early Dragon buyers got burned two years ago would have taught those in the US & Europe a lesson.
so, you say instead of buying now for $35 we should wait for pumping to slow down and buy for $42 in two years? or wait for spot to go down to $15 and buy the coins for $35 in two years? speculation I say P.S. apmex has not horses listed ... no 1/2, 1, 2 ... nothing
