Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by mmm....shiney!, Oct 18, 2014.
We only possess road maps for places we have previously traveled.
^^^ nice work Confuscious
Found this Diagram online, and thought it would prolong this interesting and enjoyable topic discussion (which i've been lurking) about our definitions of liberalism.
What category of Liberalism do you fit into? or do you have a unique la carte version of liberalism?
Good question SBM.
Looks like the LDP reached their goal and will now start a campaign.
You know what's missing in that diagram is money. Where does the definition, creation and inflation/devaluation of money fit?
Sorry for the absence, my schedule is getting crazy at the moment, and there is even more to do.
A few people have pretty much made my arguments for me, especially with covenants on land developments/etc. It annoys me that people would assert things like "EVERY HOUSE WILL BE YUCK AND IT WILL BE MADMAX-VILLE" without even taking 10 minutes to look into how things would work. Anyway....
Exactly. Anyone who tries this "neer neeerr you arent teh libertharian b-caus u took der monee" means apparently we are meant to pay taxes, and never try to get anything back.
Eat them words. EAAATTTTT THEMMMM!!
Also, we actually have ~1800, it's just the verification part of the VEC process was more difficult than we anticipated.
You mean free markets and not agressing on people? Free markets with almost no government interference, and even government outlawing them are: ebay/paypal, uber, silk road.... and they are all great. Paypal can sometimes suck due to their massive nature, but try dealing with a government agency if you got a $20 item from China which didn't meet your needs....
Anyway, we will be running in every upper house region of Victoria, so hopefully we can count on the votes of people who are tried of the majors and want some common sense when it comes to policy. If you or your friends like what Leyonhjelm has been doing, please vote for us, and spread the word to other disaffected individuals.
If you usually vote liberal, putting us at #1 then putting the Libs at #2 means the Libs will get the vote if we don't, and will send a clear message that people actually want REAL liberalism as opposed to this big-spending and rights-stomping agenda which they have had for a while, and seems to be getting worse.
If anyone has any more questions for me, I'll happily answer them, but there may be delays in doing so.
I don't consider that a valid defence of the LDP, nor do I consider Leyonhjelm's previously published defence of retaining illgotten funds at all justifiable for a libertarian movement.
If someone wishes to argue that members of the LDP are only receiving monies stolen from them at some prior point in time, then the argument can only be validated if the LDP as an organisation does as "Karla Preston" suggests and attempts to return the money to it's rightful owners, the taxpayers of Australia. Leyonhjelm and his fellow LDP members could then line up with the rest of the electorate and get a small portion of their stolen $$ back, which if they wanted to, they could then donate to the LDP.
Essentially the LDP are complicit in receiving stolen property, and as such, its position on tax is soiled, just like a baby's nappy.
Oh my god Shiney....... I have to say I am proud of you...... I never thought I would say that but I am. You are not trying to twist things to suit an agenda but are actually taking a stand based on what you believe is morally right. That says a lot about you and it says a lot about others. I have to say I am genuinely shocked. I am a little stunned at the moment.
Just take a few deep breaths, it'll pass.
Just looked with about 50% of the vote counted, the LDP was polling 2.6% which puts it in 4th place, at 5th is the Sex Party with 2.47%. Essentially that means Victorians enjoy libertarianism more than they enjoy sex.
Combine the two and merge with the Shooters Party for an election winning combination. The Liberal Democratic Sex Shooters party. Imagine the opportunities for catchy campaign slogans with double entendres. Their policy document could be titled: Fifty Shades of Freedom.
CRINGE....... it is called a runcible spoon.
Hi all, thought I'd check in again
Ever driven on a road? Ever been treated by a doctor (subsidised education, government regulated, medicare subsidy, etc)?, ever bought a product where the company was bailed out? ever used an Australian dollar?
The argument gets a bit thin.
The LDP is against public funding, but if the other parties have their hand out, why should be let the government keep more money to spend on further war, corporate welfare, and whatever else? Better off with us than with them.
It looks like we are going to be a clear 4th (behind the LibNat, Labor, and Greens), making us the first minor party. It's a humble start, considering we only got registered less than four weeks before the start, and had to get everything organised! Advertising, candidates, preferences, a launch party, media non-sense, etc...
We didn't get a seat, which sucks, but we did exceed expectations. We are expecting 1 to 3 seats next Victorian Election, and we are confident that our numbers will continue to grow.
Sex, Drugs, and Guns party. Sign me up
P.S. Thank you to everyone who supported us!
We aren't perfect, but we are trying
We probably had the youngest team in Victoria running the campaign (Average age of six members of the Victorian Executive is ~28.5) and this was the first election for us all. We made many, many mistakes, and there was so much we had no idea about, but learned a lot, and are confident that our next campaign will be even better.
So once again, thanks
If anyone wants to keep harassing me over who will build the roads, or the best accelerant to burn their useless fiat dollars, feel free to ask. I'll be checking back every now and then
I missed this response Leslie, my apologies.
Well done on your campaign results recently, you must all be stoked, congratulations. I'll remain a staunch critic of some of your policies but I'd rather that the halls of government are filled with people like you rather than the Larissa Waters or Nick Xenephon types, especially as I have no say in whether I want a government that enforces a contractual agreement over me with which I have not given my consent
The argument gets thin because you can't deny the LDP is part of the machinery that coerces individuals into handing a part of their property over and are willing to accept the funds. The simple fact is I don't have a choice.
The LDP has made a decision to do what every other political party has done. Will it only change its official policy and act like real Libertarians when another party takes the initiative.? Why not take a real stance and give me back some of my stolen money? That would certainly place it on a different plane to the rest of the bottom feeders. :/
Actually, my money is better off with me rather than the LDP.
Some of the biggest critics are party members
Apart of it? More than the politicians themselves? More than the bureaucrats? Couldn't it be said that people who pay taxes are also apart of it?
What choice do you think I have?
One choice that I do make, it to be part of an effort to educate others. The political soapbox gives a massive lift to such educational efforts.
*real* libertarians? You'd say that Ron Paul wasn't a *real" libertarian? You know that Rothbard was a very active member of the US libertarian party, right?
... and if you want to see the LDP "giving back" money, you'd better get some more friends to vote for us. Also, the fact that Leyonhjelm near-singlehandedly kept the tax-free threshold at $18,000 means the LDP have already allowed billions to be kept.
We agree, and that's what we are working towards.
TL;DR: We can play a game of "purity" if you wish, but be aware that you don't do libertarians any favour by playing a game of "tall poppy" with those who are most likely to agree with you.
You've put your hand up to be in the public spotlight, there are no tall poppies that I can see, I am watching and cheering from the sidelines but I'm also booing as well. It's because I'm pissed off with the democratic system I live under. You're also just as disaffected as me and maybe more so with our current system, but you've also chosen to be a cog in the machinery of government so I'm sure you understand you are going to cop a spray every now and then. In fact it's a reminder that at some point in time the LDP needs to move beyond what bordsilver has described as its "pragmatic compromises to further the overall agenda of increasing liberalism". *
The LDP needs to move beyond the position of compromise faster than it feels comfortable doing so:
For if it doesn't move more quickly than is comfortable, it is at risk of seeking comfort. The Liberal Democratic Party needs to do something "unParty" before it becomes labelled as just another party, so far it hasn't. Let's hope it's not too late.
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