LDP recruitment drive

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by mmm....shiney!, Mar 21, 2017.

  1. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  2. BuggedOut

    BuggedOut Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I'm a bit surprised your not a member shiney. Though I guess when I think about it, they probably aren't purist enough libertarian for you :)

    I joined up as a paid member last year. Never been a member of a political party before but figured....if I'm not part of the solution then I'm part of the problem. :cool:
     
  3. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    What problem? ... says the welfare recipient.
     
  4. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I don't like their key policies as stated on the website's landing page:

    Protect Super
    Cut wasteful spending
    End political correctness

    Surely, out of all the issues and inequities there's got to be better policies than these. I can think of a several off the top of my head:

    Ending banking monopoly on creating money
    Deregulating employment remuneration
    Preventing foreign ownership of key Australian assets
    Reducing or eliminating income tax
    Shrinking government
    Repealing excessive legislation
    ...
     
  5. col0016

    col0016 Active Member

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    I assume they probably protect Super from the government?
    Ending wasteful spending would be nice. I like that David is trying to freeze Senators pay until a budget surplus is achieved.
    Ending political correctness would be nice.

    All your policies are pretty in line with the party, except perhaps number 1 and 3.
     
  6. BuggedOut

    BuggedOut Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    The LDP policy platform has it's issues, but I am a pragmatist and conditioned to working with imperfection. I see them as better than the alternatives and a step in the right direction. Thus worthy of my support.

    If more people got involved and libertarianism got a foothold in the national political debate then I am certain that th LDP policy platform would evolve and improve. Those people out there looking for a purist platform, or on that they agree with 100% are going to be waiting for a long time. Utopia doesn't exist, nor will it ever. Get used to playing with the hand you've been dealt.
     
  7. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I'd join if they refunded the money that was stolen from me and given to them under the pretence of democracy.

    http://forums.silverstackers.com/message-736245.html#p736245

    http://marktier.com/libertarian-pigs-in-the-trough

    Karla Preston is a character from Mark Tier's political thriller Trust Your Enemies.

    The LDP will attempt to justify receiving stolen goods by saying that it's better off with them - which is true, but it doesn't absolve them of their complicity in the crime. I'm not after a utopia Bugged, as I've posted before, Libertarians (as opposed to socialists) are only too fully aware that a Utopia is unachievable, I'd just like them to be more principled than they've been. I'll support them by posting their publications and policies, I just won't join until they give me back my $1.

    Edit to add: I do support their campaigns with $$$
     
  8. BuggedOut

    BuggedOut Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I think that is the major difference between you and I shiney. I'm a pragmatist and I believe the LDP has to be pragmatic to some extent to even be able to survive in the current system, let alone compete.

    I accept that you are a purist and I do respect that, but I just think it is a bit naive to think a purist platform would survive even 2 seconds in the spotlight in todays world.
     
  9. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Ask yourself why.
     
  10. BuggedOut

    BuggedOut Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Because most people still only think in terms of "left" and "right". They don't know about the other axis. That is why some of the purist libertarian ideals of free trade, global marketplaces, no welfare and low taxes is mistaken for being right wing, or even far-right or alt-right and easily ripped down. I frequently get mistaken by good friends for being a conservative, but I am far from it! The fact the LDP has the word "Liberal" in it doesn't help them in this respect. Voter ignorance and lack of education is the reason why a purist platform wouldn't get any traction.

    If it were my call I'd encourage the LDP to push more of the socially progressive stuff like drug legalization, euthanasia, gay marriage etc so that the public can better understand they are not a right-wing party. There are so many single issue parties like the marijuana party, sex party, outdoor recreation party etc that really should ALL fit under the libertarian banner if pragmatic political alliances could be made.
     
  11. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    My justified opinion is that the our system of democracy is set up to abuse power. That's why pragmatics is more popular than principles.

    Just ask Leyonhjelm, he's quite happy to accept stolen money.
     
  12. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    :lol:

    But he acknowledges it's wrong that the legal system supports the theft and he uses the resources at his disposal to advocate to stop it (noting that it isn't possible to return the money to its rightful owners). In contrast others take the money and use it to argue that they should be able to increase the level of theft. One of these things is not like the other one.
     
  13. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    So the ends justify the means? :/
     
  14. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    No. In this example he isn't directly undertaking the theft and he can't return the property to the rightful owner(s) even though he knows he is in possession of stolen goods. I'm arguing that it is what you do with the stolen goods in such a situation that determines whether or not you are acting morally.

    PS. Happy to be convinced a different way.
     
  15. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    What is the moral thing to do if you are aware you are in possession of stolen goods?
     
  16. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Return it to its rightful owner.

    What should you do if it is impossible to find the rightful owner?
     
  17. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I've seen people post lost dog ads on telephone boxes and on FB.

    What steps did the LDP undertake to find the rightful owners? The Senator knows who the owners are ie the taxpayers of Australia. Return it to them. :)

    [​IMG]

    http://marktier.com/libertarian-pigs-in-the-trough
     
  18. FullMetalFever

    FullMetalFever New Member

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    Up until the Mark Tier quote, I thought you were pushing your ideals too far, but its quite right that doing such a thing would establish the party as one that stands on its principles, not to mention the goodwill with both the voters who voted for LDP and those who heard about it via other sources (it would surely make a good media story).

    There is still a great impracticality in actually finding the "rightful owners". In your analogy of people posting lost dog ads, it would be all too simple for every man and his dog (pardon the pun) to claim they voted for the LDP. Following through with this would then put them considerably out of pocket.
     
  19. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Just read the Mark Tier article. The next obvious question is that besides lump sum cash handouts does the principle apply to wages and salaries of public servants? What about private contractors to the government? Sub-contractors to contractors to the government? What about receipt of goods-in-kind? Given the theft by inflation from savers to debtors associated with central-bank issued fiat currency, does taking out a line of credit count as theft and should you give back the inflationary bit of the LOC back to all people with proof of genuine savings? (Presumably there's a line to be drawn somewhere, so I guess it's a question of where to draw it.)
     
  20. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    We could start with what constitutes the voluntary transfer of property ie giving credit and taking on debt and what constitutes involuntary transfer of wealth eg inflation as a result of central bank policy decisions.

    And move on from there? :D
     

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