For those looking to build their numismatic collection, the latest Chinese coin investments list is out. Heavy on the pandas, as always . http://www.livebusinesschat.com/smf/index.php?topic=4795.0
Wow! Thanks heaps Tamo42. I really appreciate the effort you put into your lists. They are really really good recommendations. Thanks!
Glad you like them. It's always nice to hear all the work you put in is appreciated . I know a lot of stackers here are very new to the whole numismatic side of things, and are hesitant about paying 3 or 10 times the melt value for a coin. It's really a whole different ball game. Do lots of reading first .
I noticed on that 64 coins list a lot of the 1980s Pandas and other coins are only MS69. The 70 population seems to be very low if not non existant is that why you suggest getting 69 coins over 70?
70s are always better, but like you said, non-existent for many coins. 69 is still investment grade though, so acceptable (and recommend-able) Clear as mud, right?
I just noticed that the Panda Pricepedia 2000 index consists of 20 different gold, silver and platinum coins with populations under 2000. Now the - populations - does that refer to mintage numbers or the number of NGC certified coins?
Population is technically the number of surviving coins. Many coins have been melted or made into jewelry over the years, so the populations can be much, much lower than the mintage numbers. How people go about estimating that number is something I don't know though.
Does anyone know the list of the coins that make it into the index? If they are newer coins ( after 1950s ) i dont think that they would have been melted. Also if one were to construct an Index of 20 different Australian coins which have mintages less than 2000 i am sure that their prices would also be HIGH. When coins have mintages less than 2000 than even if they are simple CuNi coins their values would be much higher than the intrinsic or face values. Why would you be posting graphs/charts of super-rare coins ( ie. Mintage less than 2000 ) and use that as a selling/marketing point on ALL the coins?
Peter's index is for modern Chinese coins. Most modern Chinese coins have experienced severe population reductions over the years until about 2002. So while it's not totally representative of all modern Chinese coins, it is a fair guideline of the high end coins.
Hello THUCYDIDES79 ... I may be wrong but I have seen it quoted many times by very "high end" collectors that LOW MINTAGE does not equal POPULARITY. I'm sure tamo42 can give some insight into this but I don't think Australian coins are that popular amongst serious collectors, I mean don't get me wrong I'm not bad mouthing Aussie's at all ... I think Australia is totally cool and I even own many Australian coins but I just don't think the demand is there. Even this latest mad rush for the 2012 dragons will soon die off and I don't see them gaining any value in ten years or probably ever. In fact I own an Australian 2000 Gold Dragon PF70 Ultra Cameo 1/10 oz IT IS THE ONLY NGC PF70 of this year in existance but I don't think I could get a $1,000 for it. Now if you look at a 2000 Chinese Gold Mirror 1/10 oz coin I just saw that coin sell in just a few minutes for $6,000 and it wasn't even graded !!! I think tamo42 knows the buyer as well because he is a very "high end' collector who frequents CCF. This is a 1/10 oz of gold for $6,000 !!! No offense but nobody wants a coin with an old hag on the back of it It's the same for modern American coins as well who wants them other than for bullion? Sure old Morgans are selling for $1,000's but modern Australian & American coins are basically crap for numismatic value sad but true All anyone needs to do is look at recent auctions on ebay, stacks & bowers, heritage, hong kong auctions, etc to see that Chinese coins are on fire and I only see it getting hotter. IMO comeaux
I guess I could dig into one of my four NGC registry sets and sell some of these !!! http://coins.www.collectors-society.com/registry/coins/SetListing.aspx?PeopleSetID=126589
Hi THUCYDIDES79, welcome to the Panda Forum. I think the chart you are referring to is this one, yes? Source: http://www.pandacollector.com/pricepedia-index.html If so, I might hazard a few answers. Hopefully PandaCollector will give his official response: Q> Reasons that the PPI (Panda Price Index) is used as a selling/marketing point on ALL coins? A few things that should be understood prior to answering the question: 1. The PPI isn't meant to directly infer performance on all coins. Just like the DOW Jones Index and S&P 500 doesn't cover ALL the stocks performance. The PPI is only an index of 20 Pandas with mintages less than 2000. 2. What the PPI does provide indirectly, is a snapshot of the demand for the Panda market. If these 20 Pandas aren't not performing well, "generally" the other more common Pandas should suffer also. If these 20 Pandas are performing well, then "generally" the other more common Pandas should be doing well also. Of course there are performance differences with each individual coin. A> Generally speaking, if the PPI is going up, this trend should be seen throughout the Panda Market, and thus far it has been fairly accurate. Thus the PPI can be used as a marketing point on the Panda market, in much the same way, when the S&P 500 and DOW Jones Index is up, those are used as a marketing point for the stock market. I hope this helps. Side note: Since my involvement into Pandas, I have been trying to keep track of the most common 22 Pandas (1989-2011). Mainly because the top 20 are generally out of my reach. You could call this the Yennus Panda Price Index, or the Index For Poor Pandas. Those that have been to the Panda/SydneyStacker Meets have seen this chart, and what is clearly evidenced is the Panda's performance in relation to silver; and as you would expect, it's a curve very similar to PandaCollectors.
Very good explanation ... in fact there are 36 when counting the varieties just in the silver BU's http://coins.www.collectors-society.com/registry/coins/SetListing.aspx?PeopleSetID=126589 If you look at my list here there are many of these selling for more than $500 now and they are not even in the PPI Look at the price of the gold fractional's like 95's, 98's, 99's, 20's, etc ... it is astounding what these are easily selling for and some of them 30 times over spot !!! Show me one American or Australian coin minted within the last thirty years selling like this ... hmmmmm how about ZERO !!!
The redback spider is selling over 30 time spot silver price But I know what you mean entirely... I love my Perth Mint lunars and koalas but they're mostly bullion, I wouldn't be paying 3x over spot for a 2005 Kook for example...but I'd probably pay that for a panda from 2005.
