largest property on earth for sale.

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by ego2spare, Jun 29, 2015.

  1. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I haven't had direct experience in exporting fruit products - but from my understanding, exporting livestock or any produce (e.g. oranges) tend to be an extremely sophisticated and expensive exercise - especially for smaller farmers.

    I believe those regulations certainly favor the larger corporations over the individual farmers. Larger companies can more easily afford the compliance and regulatory issues and specialists.

    Here is a simplified list of the requirements you would need to understand and meet just to send oranges overseas:
    - Check and follow the Export Control Act 1982
    - Get your produce inspected and certified by Authorized Officers
    - Submit a Notice of Intention to export to Dept of Ag and Water
    - Request a phytosanitary certificate
    - Review the requirements in the link below
    http://www.agriculture.gov.au/expor...uest-for-permit-form-and-supporting-documents
    - Review the application to register an export establishment
    http://www.agriculture.gov.au/export/from-australia/ex26

    Here is the list of requirements for sending UGG Boots/Shoes overseas:
    - take it to Australia Post
     
  2. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    the Chinese can always go for the Australian DEBT too, and the borrower become the new slaves of the new lender.

    yes new Master :)
     
  3. FullMetalFever

    FullMetalFever New Member

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    That is one very short sighted professor .....

    So in a future where food is becoming increasingly scarce and more expensive, he thinks we could just nationalise the property, directly impacting the ability of the Chinese to feed their population, and expect no ramifications from that? I think that would be basically a declaration of war .....
     
  4. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    just the suggestions would bring in the farms protectors everywhere :lol:

    just like US soldiers guarding the poppies field in Afghanistan

    Turkey's tanks in Iraq to protect their training ground.
     
  5. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    The problem isn't with the quantity of food Australia can produce, it is the profitability of farming.

    What many people don't understand is that running a farm is VERY expensive, and that often getting funds for a farm is NOT easy. Who is going to borrow $100,000 (or more) at 4-10% interest from a bank, for fodder/fertilizer, when your return is likely to be between 0%-2%? However, foreign investment allows farmers to partner with foreign capital, allowing them to access funds that would otherwise not be possible (or affordable).*

    Would you risk your savings on a enterprise that may go broke if it doesn't rain, with a return on investment of 0-2%? It is proven, most Australians wouldn't/don't - but there are some foreigners who are interested.

    Without more investment dollars flowing into the agricultural sector, more farms are likely to continue closing down (or selling out). By closing the door on foreign investment, more farms are just going to close up, and everyone loses/starves.

    By accepting foreign investment, farms can stay open, become more efficient/expand, and continue producing - feeding everyone.

    Let the farmers make their own decisions on what to do - if they want to find foreign partners to work with, let them. They don't need someone 1000KM away in Canberra telling them how to run their business.

    If you don't think farmers should be allowed to work with foreign capital, you should start a farm and show the industry how it all works.

    ---
    *"The typical farm here generates a return on capital of just 1.4 per cent, according to a government report. That deters local investors and makes foreign investment all the more vital."
    http://www.smh.com.au/business/chin...very-minute-in-australia-20160329-gntruc.html
     
  6. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    ^^^

    More farms needs to go belly up. Farming is a protection racket, drought, flood, fire, pest, currency and fuel relief.
    We hear from farmers lobby every week, if a farm go bankrupt the land will blacken and nothing will ever grow.... What cods wallop. A farm goes into a receivership, someone else will buy it. And a better manager / farmer will make a go of it.
     
  7. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I think if there was less government interference into farms, farms would be more profitable, and they wouldn't need the special benefits they often lobby for.

    We often have to pay extra taxes/levies.

    http://www.agriculture.gov.au/ag-fa...ock-transaction-levy-annual/information_sheet

    Of course these levies are for our own benefit - and there is no opt-out option.

    Cattle Transaction Levy
    Cattle (grass fed): $5.00 per head
    Lot-fed cattle (grain fed): $5.00 per head

    "The Australian Government introduces levies and export charges at the request of industry. These levies variously fund research and development, marketing, residue testing, plant and animal biosecurity programs and emergency responses for industry."

    They also don't charge the levies just once...
    "The levy covers not only sales but also transfers of cattle and livestock between production and processing stages."
     
  8. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    End of the day, levies are just a cost of doing business. Don't want to lump all farmers in one bucket but the main problem with farming are the bad farmers who needs to be propped up and the natural disaster sob stories.

    It's like when I walk to my office, the street is full of cafes, they all compete, they all have overheads, they all need to pay their taxes and make a profit.

    If a cafe makes bad coffee, location is bad or they take to long, than they go out of business. For lease / for sale signs go up, someone else will invest and opens another cafe or something else.

    I am sure even farmers agree, that many are feeling the negative vibe on the whole industry due to the bad farmer managers.
     
  9. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I agree that farm practices could be improved, but there is so much regulation that it affects the industry.

    E.g. A cafe is allowed to sell coffee to anyone who walks into their premises.
    But livestock farmers are limited to who they can sell their produce to. I'm allowed to carve up my steer for my family, but if I sell it to my friend I'm breaking the law.

    E.g. No one tells the cafe owner how to store or grind his coffee.
    But even in caring for sheep, (well meaning) people outside the industry think they know better. (E.g. Mulesing)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulesing
     
  10. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I have seen documentary on mulesing, a no win situation for sheep farmers.

    In regards to cafe, I agree no one tells them how to grind their coffee, but that have to follow worksafe and food safety rules.

    Every business have regulations they have to follow. That is part of life.

    Just like I'm about to sign off on $70,000 on tag and testing. A safe work requirement that all electrical cables have to be tested.
     
  11. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Yeah, I understand where you are coming from... but I think farmers have onerous regulations, which well meaning as they may be, aren't very helpful.

    I feel for you regarding the tags and testing.
     
  12. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Yup some regulations are just idiotic, deemed required by "well intentioned" but ill informed people. But that's life.
    As for $70k it's not my money but still it seems out of proportion, so much so that it spawned a whole industry lol.

    Tag and testing is just a tip of the iceberg, a new "government me too" policy of data retention is a killer.

    I presume you a farmer, don't get me wrong I think your lot in life is hard.
    But I suggest farming is made even harder by the poor (don't mean cash) farmers that are propped up.

    For example

    One cattle rancher, hear everyone forecasting drought so reduces stock even though getting a poor returns, but gets by and gets a small handout.
    A different farmer crosses his fingers hope for the best, is wrong and have 1000 dead cattle and applies for a big handout.

    Both have difficulty and hard time but if no subsidy the bad farmer goes bankrupt. The good farmer buys the cheaper farms and manages it better.

    Yes it is a very simplistic view, but something true if all industry.,, look at cars and ship building a total basket case shivering on handout.
     
  13. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I'm all for free market principals in the Agricultural sector - but at the moment, it isn't a free market economy in the Ag industry.

    I think many farmers, would happily accept the following trade - removal of most/all benefits, in exchange for the removal of all levies and extraneous regulations.
     
  14. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

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  15. FullMetalFever

    FullMetalFever New Member

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    The problem may very well not be realised until much later. Possibly when its too late to do anything about it.

    I have no problem with foreign investment in the Agricultural Industry, what I do have a problem with is foreign ownership of Australian soil. More than happy for farmers to lease their land to foreign investors. Which in doing so, I'll bet they'll get higher returns than your distorted figures of 1.4% return on capital.*

    * I say distorted because the capital includes the value of the land - usually a very large sum. Also, the farmer has either not paid the current valuation for it or (even better) has inherited that land as it passed down through generations. Any new farmer (or sane business person) evaluating the purchase of a new farm would be chasing much higher returns than that (and there are plenty of ways to diversify and carve out a niche) or they have an eye towards land banking and the investment opportunity (capital growth) in the land itself. This I believe is at the forefront of our foreign investors minds.

    Absolute cop-out to say that "life's tough for Aussie farmers, so they should be able to sell Australia's land to non-citizens!". (Especially since most of the big holdings were basically given away during times of settlement/federation). Either make it work, or put it up for sale for another Aussie to give it a go (without chasing prices only gettable from foreigners).
     
  16. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    there were never ever an intention of a free market.

    free for the corporation yes. small farmers pay based on the number of cows, while corporations pay based on a single license.

    looks like to protect the corporate profit from competing small farmers.

    milk, eggs etc are clear example
    there is not even futures markets for these anymore :lol: can't imagine an egg futures markets would look like ; no egg allowed !!!
     
  17. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  18. FullMetalFever

    FullMetalFever New Member

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    An important (and pertinent to this discussion) point from that article:

     
  19. Old Codger

    Old Codger Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Been on that property, at the homestead.

    They have a large 'school house', about 30 feet square, with computers on desks all around the walls.

    All with satellite internet and all the gear. 101 communication with the teachers at the base, Alice Springs i presume.

    OC
     

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