Large numbers of Fake Perth Mint and PAMP bars sold on eBay

Discussion in 'General Precious Metals Discussion' started by Ronnie 666, Oct 1, 2014.

  1. Ronnie 666

    Ronnie 666 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    You raised the issue of libertarian society ?

    You buy a fake pair of sunglasses or a cd or a bag to use. You don't buy for the explicit reason to steal money from you fellow serf. I agree the corporations take a loss from fake goods but the public don't. These coins are counterfeit money as are the gold bars. If you have no problem with this then you would have no problem with counterfeit cash. I agree the central banks are the greatest counterfeit operation in the world and I oppose their money printing schemes. Counterfeit money will destroy the society. Sunglasses bags and CDs will not. Different level of fraud. Obviously this is a small operation and is no threat to society compared to many others but it can be easily eliminated and we choose to do nothing!
     
  2. SpacePete

    SpacePete Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Melamine milk and infant formulas would be cheaper to. What could go wrong?

    And I bet you could get some pretty good "replica" cash if we're going to allow fakes.

    One day you might even be able to sell fake politicians -- shiny on the outside but when the thin patina of pre-election respectability quickly wears off you are stuck with a toxic turd.
     
  3. billbob78

    billbob78 New Member

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    Has anyone on here bought one of these fakes and is able to confirm they match the photos? Or is the seller only using stock photos from Perth Mint's site? Perhaps the actual coins received dont have the denomination printed, or perhaps even state copy? Perhap the photo looks nothing like the items being sold?
     
  4. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Ok, settle down guys. As mmm...shiney! has explained, fraud and fakes are two very different things just like there's a difference between murder and self-defence. None of us are promoting fraud and we all agree it's a crime.
     
  5. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Money laundering or trying to build up a fake bid history for a future scam? Guessing the latter.
     
  6. SpacePete

    SpacePete Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I think that in Australia they don't have to have "replica" or "copy" on the actual item, only on the for-sale listing (I haven't seen one in person though).

    You can buy bulk lots of these extremely cheaply from Alibaba or affiliate websites which is what these sellers are doing, and then listing them individually on eBay. Some of the Chinese manufacturers can even customise them for you.

    Given how extremely cheap 1oz fake silver coins are when ordered in bulk, maybe we should order a massive bunch of customised ones with something like "BEWARE: FAKE" stamped deeply into the surface then hand them out for free. Or even send some of the fake bullion bars to newspapers and see if there is interest in some reporting in the major papers. If we can get a bullion dealer to help out, it might even be tax deductible for them.
     
  7. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    I think you may have missed newtosilver's shit stirring post. :rolleyes: http://forums.silverstackers.com/message-721607.html#p721607 in relation to Libertarianism.

    Fairly illogical post that.

    "You don't buy for the explicit reason to steal money from you fellow serf"? I am assuming you mean selling not buying, are the seller's of these fakes stealing money? It's obvious that the items you guys are linking to are clearly not genuine, FFS the bars are 50mm long.

    "These coins are counterfeit money as are the gold bars", if you believe the intention of the seller is to commit fraud then they are counterfeit in your opinion I suppose, but they're not counterfeit money by a long shot, they are a just fakes. They are not produced to deceive or fraud (unlike fake Pandas and countless other coins especially in the Asian market that are produced so well, they trick even experts), unless of course you buy them and leave them around the house with the express intention of trying to trick your friends. As a side note, even in the world of coin collecting, some forgeries hold value, far in excess of the metallic content of the coins, especially if they are notorious forgeries.

    "If you have no problem with this then you would have no problem with counterfeit cash." No, I have a problem with counterfeit cash, I do not have a problem with gold bars or coins that clearly are not genuine.

    And as bordsilver pointed out, there is a marked difference between "fake" and "fraud".

    Find a more deserving cause to devote your energy to, or at least realise that you shouldn't champion (insert dictate) to others what they should or should not be able to buy.

    :|

    Best post from the "Ban the Fakes Campaign Group".

    Exactly, fakes should be readily available and people should be able to buy what they want.

    Fake medicines or copies should be available - if someone is dying and the prescribed approved medicine is unavailable or hideously expensive, then they should have access to cheaper generic or black market medicines. Being fully aware of the risks mind you. What have you got to lose?

    [​IMG]
     
  8. House

    House Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Bought one a while back- http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-54154-fake-proof-lunar-horse-on-ebay.html
     
  9. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    Try "A Current Affair".

    :lol:
     
  10. SpacePete

    SpacePete Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Oh man, ACA could do an insane story on this. First they show someone half hidden in shadow, but obviously from a particular ethnic group that has absolutely no connection with the actual story, ordering them on "the dark web" (actually just Alibaba) and listing them on eBay. Maybe they also sell pirated movies. There's a brief clip of Bron from Perth Mint saying something sensible, but then they cut to a pensioner, and possibly some "battlers", who have sunk their life savings into several kilos of fake gold bars off eBay. We all feel sad and angry. Then its time for X Factor or The Block and all we remember a few days later is some vague suspicion of a particular ethnic group and the feeling that precious metals are associated with criminals so we need to stick with fiat and debt.
     
  11. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Let's not get fakes and fraud mixed up.

    I have not problem with fake/copy products, provided they are clearly labelled a such.

    I do have a problem with fraud. Where fake/copy products are being presented as the genuine article.
     
  12. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Maybe someone here should bid the fraudulent ad up a high as possible so the seller is liable for the final valuation fee.
     
  13. Ronnie 666

    Ronnie 666 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    ^^^"Fairly illogical post that"

    Fairly illogical ? Yes it is completely and utterly illogical that the only purpose of buying these fake coins and bars is to sell it to some ignorant peasant for their hard earned cash.
    You cant listen to them, or like fake "sunnies" wear them on your nose - well I cant my nose is too small. Yours who knows !!
     
  14. SpacePete

    SpacePete Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    What about this one, it looks genuine and is even advertised prominently as NON-MAGNETIC. Why would you want a non-magnetic one if not to avoid a common test for fake bullion?

    [​IMG]

    Now compare with the real product on the Perth Mint site and you can see they have copied the image.

    REAL BAR FROM PERTH MINT
    http://www.perthmintbullion.com/au/Buy-Gold-Bars/1kg-Cast.aspx?productId=23
    [​IMG]
     
  15. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    Goods for sale do not have to have any purpose.
     
  16. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  17. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Are we seriously going to start having a product by product in-depth discussion about what is considered clearly fraudulent, clearly non-fraudulent and everything in between? :rolleyes:
    I'd rather go to a music site and discuss what's metal and not metal and why nu-metal is definitely not metal while dark ambient definitely can be.
     
  18. goldpelican

    goldpelican Administrator Staff Member

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  19. SpacePete

    SpacePete Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    It says it is certified in the specifics section. What does that mean?

    Item specifics
    Composition:Gold
    Era: 2010s
    Region of Origin: Australian
    Certification: Certified
     
  20. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    Conveniently cropped the title SilverPete? :lol:

    [​IMG]

    ;)
     

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