Is ex SAS soldier Ben Roberts Smith VC a war criminal ?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by mrsilverservice, Sep 23, 2019.

  1. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Seems like there is substance to the allegations. Otherwise these media agencies wouldn't be pushing the story, and risk monetary damages.

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/ben...d-afghan-off-small-cliff-20190910-p52pys.html
     
  2. mal

    mal Member

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    I'm not going to directly quote anyone, simple overview of comments in response to my previous. Generalised name calling of service men and women bootlickers without any left and right arcs is just a disgrace to all who have made great personal and family sacrifices. Comparing the men and women in uniform in a recruiting office or throughout the enlistment process is no real representation to how the services actually operate, it is a sad fact that you don't see the real processes untill your deep in and locked in a contract. If you we seen as medically unfit for a broken elbow i think there is more to the story, i was enlisted with prior serious injuries 1 of which was a cracked patella. On the surface of the comment made in reference to the media, we all know by now they tell the sheeple what they want to. If they were under threat of any financial fallout from unfounded allegations on such a serious subject i think the upper echelon would protect there interests. My comment was based on personal experience and facts that unless you have served you simply don't know what it's like being under a government contract and what you are required to do. I had a wo1 comment say we protect democracy not practice it, that sounds disgusting but legally that is how things happen all around the world to protect day to day life for those not willing to make the sacrifice themself. My time served has destroyed me, my family and what my life once was. So please refrain from making generalized comments denigrating those who put themselves second to the sheeple
     
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  3. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Again, no one called service members boot lickers. Shifting goal posts won't win any argument. The boot lickers are the ones who think that those in uniform are untouchable.

    If you have served then you know better than anyone else the corrupting nature of the armed forces and how it can drive men to do unthinkable things.
     
  4. mal

    mal Member

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    the ones who think that those in uniform are untouchable, this applies to many in uniforms, defense, police, pso's, ses, first reponders, and civilians wishing they had there own uniform. Such a broard statement without any prior premise outlined, this is why i took it the way i did. I am not trying to argue and thankyou for seriously considering making the commitment when you finished school. I wouldn't say corrupting nature, i think it comes down to following, ofof, roe's, which are ultimately a legal guidline you operate under. Once you sign your contract you choices are very limited, so legally you are fullfilling your contactual agreement (doing your job). So many do not agree with the contractual obligation either morally or simply don't think the work life balance trade off is worth it. A lot of these contractual obligations are legal and not public knowledge and it makes some stomach's turn. This is why i said if you don't have personal experience you probably don't have the right to comment, it is such a different situation to other government positions it should definitely not be compared to teachers (one of my family have been teaching for over 30 years)
     
  5. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Upon rereading my initial reply to you I can see how easily it can be misinterpreted. I have the upmost respect for those who serve to defend their country, and deplore the cowardly politicians who stay at home and send our troops of on imperial escapades.

    I disagree that only a service member has the right to comment, these are public interest matters that go to the heart of the morals that make Australia the country that it is.

    My comment about bootlickers was whole heartedly reserved for those individuals too cowardly to serve but try and retain some honour for themselves by mindlessly brown nosing anyone in uniform. As you stated, service members sign legal obligations. These make them bound to even more responsibility than an average person. Hence their morality should be even greater. Any actions that undermine this deserve repercussions. They are not immune to criticism.

    In the case of BRS, he is of course innocent until proven guilty. But if the story is true then he deserves all that follows and is definitely a war criminal.
     
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  6. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Anyone who signs up for service should be aware that imperial escapades is all they will ever be doing.
     
  7. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Not necessarily. A reservist can whole heartedly serve their country without volunteering to go overseas.
     
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  8. Jason1

    Jason1 Active Member

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    we see far to much trial by media these days, wait to see what happens in courts and after investigation and then say how much a dirt bag the guy is or not.
    More often than not with war, there is allot of grey area, Not knowing the full situation none of us can really comment and call a war criminal until the facts have been argued out in court.
    Other wise we have situations where public call guilty and out for blood and this does influence Judges and jury and people go to jail with out fair trials.
     
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  9. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Except the soldiers who witnessed it stated it definitely wasn't a 'grey area'. They witnessed an unarmed and handcuffed civilian being kicked off a cliff and later being shot.
     
  10. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I wonder with testimony like that why he hasn't been found guilty yet?
     
  11. Jason1

    Jason1 Active Member

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    I think you missed the entire point of my post and pulling out the little bits that suit.
    If you didnt catch it the first time, trial by Media is a bad thing.

    I have no idea if he is innocent or not, and neither do you if your being honest

    there are plenty of instances where witnesses have been discredited in court, and even worse plenty of occasions where witnesses were simply trying to save their own skin.
    So we dont know the full story until its been investigated and a verdict in a fair trial has been given.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
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  12. mal

    mal Member

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    Not reservists, in my instance i was attached for a year for intant response to chem, bio, natural so on for the eastern board of australia. I think this reiterates my previous statement that some obligations are legal but not public knowledge, this is also the case OS
     
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  13. mal

    mal Member

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    I was thrown under the bus at one point because more senior soldiers thought fit that i cop the brunt, so they lied directly and by omission
     
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  14. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    No, you have no point. Because you're trying to pass of serious war crime allegations (torture & murder) as something that falls into a 'grey' area of war (the fog of war), when that is clearly not the case. The allegations are clear, whether he's guilt or not isn't determined yet.
     
  15. Jason1

    Jason1 Active Member

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    Yer in war there is allot of grey area and not everything is as clear as you think, a good example Eg ten years ago after a big wiki leak there was that well known case of a few US soldiers killing a few civilians in either Iraq or Afghanistan I cant remember which one, But when it emerged through the leaks that there was civilians murdered by Us soldiers who were unnamed in the leaks, A group of soldiers came out and dobbed in a fellow soldier, and tried to pin it on one guy whos name got raked through the mud in the media, Wasn't till more investigation the guys who made the claim were the guilty ones and even the ring leaders,they went from the hero whistle blowers to the war criminals, they pinned the only guy who walked away from when it happened, thankfully the real was found out.

    Then you had that Charlie company case, where they intimated a soldier who came forward after a bunch of civilians were murdered,
    They beat the guy up, chucked severed fingers at him from the victims and told him they would cut his off if he whistle blew, even tried to make him confess to the murders and take one for the team.

    Im not saying that is the case here, Im not trying to pass anything off because he may well be guilty I have no idea and neither do you.
    But Its not uncommon with war situations for there there tobe a scapegoat for these sorts of crimes especially if its a number of people are involved.

    But if he is guilty then good riddance but needs tobe through a court not trial by media, and with out being there we have no idea who the good and the bad guy is yet, what is the truth and what isnt.

    Now for the part about you saying I have no point, Ive clearly stated it a number of times and will again.
    "Trial by media is not good".

    Not once did I say torture and murder is Grey. I made a comment which is a generalized that there is allot of grey in war and needs further investigation before we can start calling people war criminals, so I would appreciate you not misquoting me or misinterpreting it.
    If you read it different from what I meant by mistake then thats fine, you now know I did not mean torture and murder is a grey area which you seem tobe hung up on.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
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  16. aelmsu

    aelmsu Member

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    Your meaning was pretty clear to anyone with a normal level of reading comprehension.
     
  17. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I hope so but I can see how my comment can be framed otherwise and should have been more careful with my words. Talking smack about the military seems to make a lot of civilians quite angry.
     

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