Hockey screws Pensioners

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by JulieW, Apr 13, 2014.

  1. Old Codger

    Old Codger Active Member Silver Stacker

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    errol,

    "Kicked the ass of the nuke subs."

    This Nuke/Conventional debate has been going on for 50 years and it will never go away, but the fact remains that a nuke can stay underwater until it runs out of food or fuel, or the -crew die of old age.

    It can submerge outside home port and go 30 knots to a point on station, and get there in a third of the time and get home in a third of the time. The noise factor has been looked at by the Russians, the Yanks and the Brits, and they have ALL virtually given up on conventional subs.

    There is not all that much difference in cost, and 6x 'Virginia's' will cost us $12 billion, and 12x 'Collins' type will cost us $24 billion. They will do the same job and last as long if not a lot longer. The USN has hers in the water for near 50 years.

    The Collins subs are DUDS and any sane sailor will not sail in them for less than $150,000 a year. I have read that the COOK earns more than Chief of Navy!

    JMO


    OC


    .......and out of the entire Royal Australian Navy they can manage only about TWO full crews for the 6x subs they have. I do not think they have ever had three crews all at the same time.
     
  2. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Given that our very close ANZUS ally failed to sell us a nuclear submarine in the past (and hence why we needed to build the largest conventional submarine ever [at the time]) potentially there's a strong strategic benefit associated with them. It would be pertinent to know what missions are they typically used for and how the very capable and quiet smaller, long distance subs complement the much bigger nuclear fleet?


    Edit:
    This would seem to indicate that it would be foolish to have bigger, more expensive nuclear subs which require even bigger crews.
     
  3. Old Codger

    Old Codger Active Member Silver Stacker

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    bordsilver,

    I think the reason that we did not buy Nuke subs from the US was ALP 'anti nuclear' policy.

    And I have 3rd hand indication that the reason for lack of crews is the poor reputation of the 'Collins' subs.


    OC
     
  4. Newtosilver

    Newtosilver Active Member Silver Stacker

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    A big problem with keeping them manned is the conditions, away from home for the majority of the year, you are cooped up for very long periods of time in cramped conditions, hot bunking not even seeing the sun. Add to that wives and partners saying "you need to spend time at home or I take the kids, the majority of your super and the house"

    Add to that awhile back you had the mines in WA actively poaching them (not sure if that has changed now)
     
  5. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I know NZ went through the big anti-nuclear ships/subs period (hence why they got cut out of ANZUS for a period) but have also heard that it wasn't even an option even if our pollies had been willing to compromise on the anti-nuclear side of things. Unlikely to ever find out the truth of this sort of thing however.
     
  6. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Boys and their toys.
     
  7. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    What's long and full of seamen?

    A submarine. :lol:
     
  8. southerncross

    southerncross Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    All in your mind
    Yet another thread where the original post was dead wrong but the headline made the news huh ?
     
  9. Goldrush

    Goldrush Member

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    Well I hope that Hockey has the conviction to wind back the enormously generous pension and allowances that the politicians receive after just serving 2 terms. It's disgraceful that they get their pension straight away after only serving their 2 terms from the day they leave office. A lot spend their time there working on their business contacts and once they leave end up taking up a lucrative positions within the business community or diplomatic service. But sadly I can't see much being done in this regard, as both parties always quietly pass raises during the dead of night.
     
  10. errol43

    errol43 New Member Silver Stacker

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    Don't have to pass raises through the house ...Too much public backlash. Set up AN INDEPENDENT BOARD to determine the wages of MP's. A panel of legal eagles who will also get a rise in salary if the MP's get one.

    Campbell Newman was set to get a huge pay rise which was all set to become law, but because of a public back lash, he too set up an Board to limit fallout from the voting public going tropo.

    Regards Errol 43
     
  11. Goldrush

    Goldrush Member

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    Just gets better doesn't it. They love to use the old chestnut that they aren't in Politics for the money but than we hear that they need to be paid a certain amount in order to attract and retain the right people.
     
  12. Skevington the 3rd

    Skevington the 3rd New Member

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    Take your hangover cure - the 6 year pissup is over !!
     
  13. Lovey80

    Lovey80 Well-Known Member

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    I think the details of the US-NZ tiff was the result of the NZ Labor parties anti-nuclear stance even on nuclear powered vessels. NZ forbade any nuclear powered vessel from entering it's waters if I remember correctly.

    The reason we did not buy Nuclear subs from the US was the political decision at the time that we had to spend the money here and build them ourselves. Just to "create jobs". Just like many other very expensive but not so front page military projects over the years. I don't know if the decision for us to build the collins class and not our own version of a nuclear sub was one based on expertise availability in Australia or the anti-nuclear stance at the time. My guess is a bit of both.
     
  14. AngloSaxon

    AngloSaxon Active Member

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    The problem the Navy has too is they have been politically pushed to have women in every role. Not a problem in itself of course but I'll get to it.

    The way a seaman's postings/rotations work is designed to minimise disruptions to family life. Obviously a ship posting takes a sailor away from home and family for most of the year. So everyone is supposed to have a ship posting then a shore posting. Can't remember if they are one year or two years each. So every bloke does his ship posting and plans his family and homelife of him then being home for a couple of years on shore posting.

    Problem is many female naval personnel miraculously fall pregnant when they are due to go on their ship posting. Who needs to take their ship posting, since going to sea pregnant is a no-no? The same male sailors who were looking/planning towards their shore posting. The ADF has good maternity leave but someone needs to fill positions, don't they. Such things drain manpower and churn the amount of staff who move through. High churn means constant training of new staff.

    There are of course few female submariners but it all takes effect.
     

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