Head of Governments Educational Review Board Backs Corporal Punishment

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by House, Jul 16, 2014.

  1. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Time we did away with schools anyway.

    Stealing people's childhood away from them.
    Replacing it with useless information designed only to prepare them for the workplace.
    Not giving them the information they need to live.
    Not giving them the opportunity to learn how to make decisions for themselves.
    Impressing upon them the authority of the Government from an early age. Destroying their own pecking order and replacing it with an appointed Leader.
    Indoctorinating them into the system
    Destroying the family unit, an act already begun by taking mothers away from the family and putting them in the workplace.

    It is generally considered that children learn by playing and interacting with others, so what do we do, lock them in a class room and don't let them talk to each other. Do we do that because this is the best way of teaching, no, we do it because it is more economical to do it this way, they have a large batch of pretaxpayers to process and it is quantity that counts, not quality.

    Do all children learn in the same manner at the same rate? no, of course not but we group them together by age, some will be held back and some will never catch up but the majority will get the required dose of education.

    It is generally considered that people can only concentrate for about 15 minutes before taknig micro naps or losing concentration, so what do we do, lock them in a room, and present didactic lectures to them far longer than most people can concentrate.

    Are the teaching sessions held at the best time for learning? Most people feel tired after having a lunchtime meal. Is Physical Education the last session of the day because being physically tired can affect your ability to concentrate. Is it likely that the teaching sessions are chosen to be convenient for businesses rather than optimised for student learning?

    Why are people forced to learn about history? I know the age old "he who doesn't know history is forced to repeat it etc." but when I was taught history it was the 'Socio-Economic History of Great Britain in the 19-20 Century'. As if History didn't exist for other people, fortunately after my history learning I never did go and introduce the 'corn laws' or anything like that so I guess it sort of worked but what an absolute waste of time, a couple of good documentries put together by a team of experts and designed to entertain and inform has taught me far more about history than a couple of years listening about spinning jennies and the canal system of Great Britain.

    Sadly Classrooms are not the best way of delivering education, just the most convenient, getting someone up in front of 30 children of all different learning abilities and getting them to talk about stuff as if they were the world authority on the subject, and infallible to boot, is just too restrictive.

    Adult learning is slightly different of course but if I am trying to learn about something I will wikipaedia it first to get an idea of how big the topic is, I will YouTube it to see what other people are doing, I will go on a forum to ask questions and I will follow as many links as I need for that particular topic. I wouldn't go and sit in a classroom and have one person at the front work their way through from the start to the finish while other people ask stupid questions (there are stupid questions, I have heard many of them) Adult learning is goal orientated, so you have something to aim for, child education is completely different, you just through information at them and hope most of it sticks and figure that if it doesn't it will be caught at the next level.

    No wonder kids act up.
     
  2. wrcmad

    wrcmad Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    :p :lol:
    I wasn't trying to be intelligent.
    Just my observation that proportionately more kids who are spared the rod because of enlightened (lame?) parents, turn out to be right assholes.
     
  3. Gorth

    Gorth New Member

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    They already did: Cole's Patent Whipping Machine.

    Worked a treat :lol:
     
  4. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Read back through the memoirs of schooling in the early 1900's written by old time students and the threat of violence by the teacher never prevented the unruly behaviour that students displayed. Rather, it was a game to see how far you could get before getting the cane. ;)

    Okay, if we are going to keep classrooms this is what needs to happen:

    1. Make school an enjoyable experience.
    2. Declutter the curriculum, removing the school's responsibilities in learning what is currently accessible or can be provided outside of a classroom (eg ethics, health, financial, sport, art, music, cooking, computer technology, sex education, dance, boat licensing, reading, counting etc).
    3. Schools offer courses of study to fee paying students who wish to access learning that for any variety of reasons may not be easily accessed outside of a formal environment eg science experiments involving blowing things up, decorative sheet metal fabrication, writing a novel, music, computer technology etc etc
    4. Make parents responsible for their children following the rules of the classroom, if a child misbehaves it becomes the role of the parent to solve the problem not the school's.
    5. If the parent fails to change the behaviour of their child then the child is expelled.

    The easiest and most effective way to achieve the above would of course be to end compulsory education and return the responsibility to the parent. Then a market will evolve that will better meet the needs of most individuals. Some will choose to keep their kids at traditional schools as it is obvious that some children flourish there, others will choose to home-school or another alternative form of traditional education eg Montessori, some may choose to employ their children in their workplace and supplement their learning experiences with tutoring while some will wander the streets being a nuisance. The latter will present a different problem, they will be a law and order problem not a schooling issue and as such it will not be the function of schools and teachers to socialise and rehabilitate these individuals. It will only be when we reach that stage, that is, the admission that education is not a function of law and order but of learning that the use of corporal punishment in schools will become obviously inappropriate.
     
  5. utopia24

    utopia24 New Member

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    A bit far from topic but I would much prefer to see pedophiles castrated and repeat offenders hanged before allowing my child to be flogged because he can't sit still and recite over 100 site words in term 1 as a prep. The amount of content these children are meant to learn & retain nowadays is ridiculous when compared to what was taught when I was the same age (I enjoyed drawing stick figures and scribbling out of lines). I do believe that parents should be held accountable for discipline however in society nowadays you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

    We are all operating in a flawed system including the children
     
  6. hawkeye

    hawkeye New Member Silver Stacker

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    One parallel that I can see, to add to the excellent points made by Shiney is to think of, say, learning to drive a car.

    Now, learning to drive a car is not a particularly pleasant experience but it's not a bad one either. But people are highly motivated to do it. No-one is forced. Almost everyone wants to learn and is willing to pay for it. It's a flourishing free market education system. Now think about other skills. Most kids are highly motivated to learn how to read and write. I mean, you can't use the internet without it, playing games is difficult, etc ,etc. There is all kinds of motivation to do so. Basic maths also is very useful for managing your pocket money and for when you want to buy things with your pocket money. You start thinking about it and you realise the motivation to learn many of these things is there in the vast majority of kids.

    Now think about other things you may have learnt at school. Say for example poetry or Australian history. Now I'm sure some people find these subjects very interesting, I'm not mocking them by any means, but for me, the interest level is pretty much zero. Trying to dredge up any Australian history from what I learned at school is just about impossible because I just have no interest in it and my motivation level to do well in it was non-existent.

    If you actually start thinking about the things you learnt in school that were useful to you and/or you found interesting you realise it adds up to a lot less than 12 years of education. In fact, for myself, my father taught me reading and writing and the alphabet as well as basic maths skills before I went to school. And he wasn't some genius or anything like that, he was an ordinary blue-collar working class guy. He taught me enough that my first 2 years at school were pretty much a waste of time, in fact the teachers often said to me early on "we know you already know this, but just do it anyway".

    So the point is, if we did all these subjects on a free market basis I think we'd be surprised at how much better off our kids are. I think school, as it currently exists, knocks the desire to learn new things out of many people when this desire to learn about the world, to learn to walk and run and swim and ride a bike and all things like that is inherent in all children.

    I mean how many adults come to this site and remark how much they have learnt from it (myself included)? We want to learn. All we need to is let people go and learn what they want to learn. And have it be a lifelong experience which if you really think about it, that is what learning is. We are all learning more all the time. And much of it is not even that structured.
     
  7. renovator

    renovator Well-Known Member

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    I think your last paragraph saying they should learn what they want to learn is the problem .
    Its no good learning what you WANT to learn .You have to learn what you NEED not want which isnt always apparent when your at school age
     
  8. hawkeye

    hawkeye New Member Silver Stacker

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    Well, you do both. And ultimately, what you need to learn is something that will be useful to you so in that sense it is a wanted skill or leads to something which is wanted.

    A lot has to do with parental guidance of course. But I think the basics are pretty basic really. A lot of things you'll get from life experience and being out in the world. For example, kids often like to take on small jobs when they are young for extra money. That is them starting to learn about the market and how you make money in this world by serving those who pay you and negotiating and all that. I was doing this at a fairly early age. And then you learn about the jobs that the adults do and how they pay so much more and you ask and you think about what you would like to do and find out how to be able to do it. Because when you say "school age", that actually encompasses a wide age range and a period in life where people are learning more and more about the world and about themselves with every passing year. There's a reason why that all seemed to go so slow in comparison with later life which seems to zoom by. Much more information being absorbed by the brain when you are younger.

    I think the current system it is just far too academic. You come out of school into the real world and feel like you've been thrown in the deep end. It's really unnatural in my opinion. I think it would be better to have a more natural progression for children but I don't think that is in the interests of the current education system and most of the people who derive income from it.
     
  9. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Like Ron "Fuck'n" Swanson:


    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULAfBllREZs[/youtube]
     
  10. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    My first job was when I was 9 as well but I didn't get to handle heavy machinery until the third job I had when I was 11. I blamed the damn nanny state mentality of employers.
     
  11. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I call BS on the heavy machinery at 11.
     
  12. l***g

    l***g Active Member Silver Stacker

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    You turned out thinking it is acceptable to physically assault kids.
     
  13. Stax

    Stax New Member

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    I had a week off work to go fishing 2 weeks ago.
    When I returned to my car I found small Training shoe footprints on the bootlid, roof, bonnet ( hood) and both windscreens
    4000 worth of damage !
    Turns out my car (6 series BM) was one of several jumped allover by a gang of little yobs.
    One woman who confronted them was threatened to the point where she had to run off . All
    this was in a local Park/ nature reserve.
     
  14. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Mmm. I think you're right. I was probably in grade six when the boss taught me how to drive them so I would have been 10.
     
  15. renovator

    renovator Well-Known Member

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    Not so hard to believe i could drive when i was 8 & was taking our paddock basher over motorbike jumps by about 10 . The old man modified the seat & pedals in our basher so we could drive it

    Thats the problem with a lot of adults they think kids are useless ...given the right training they can do most things adults can do
    If you want kids to be responsible give them responsibilities...imo
     
  16. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Probably not, but it is an indication that what most adults do doesn't require years of schooling.

    The difference between adults and children is that adults mostly can think, whereas kids keep expecting every scenario they face to be the same, so when a new situation arises, they are thrown. The majority of work that adults do is repetitive, but the skilled and gifted workers are those than can react to the unconventional.
     
  17. Gorth

    Gorth New Member

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    Several of my students regularly operate heavy machinery, whether it's loaders, tractors, headers, then of course there's the farm utes. They don't drive the B-Doubles. These are kids ranging in age from 10-12. Even the 9 year olds drive the utes. You can't keep the little boys off the big toys.

    I'm not commenting on how sensible it is, when you hear stories about "how I backed into the seeder and put a dent in the tray", but it happens.
     
  18. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Couldn't reach the pedals and see over the steering wheel at the same time. :p
     
  19. hawkeye

    hawkeye New Member Silver Stacker

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    Do you have evidence to prove that?
     
  20. renovator

    renovator Well-Known Member

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    lol To be fair he did say ...mostly
     

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