Have you bought gold bars from C. Hafner?

Discussion in 'Gold' started by TreasureHunter, Dec 1, 2019.

  1. TreasureHunter

    TreasureHunter Well-Known Member

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    Hi,

    I came across a relatively new name in the bullion industry: C. Hafner from Germany.
    As I understand, their gold bars are made of "recycled gold".

    Here are some products from their site:
    https://www.c-hafner.de/en/products-services/fine-gold-bars.html

    Do you know anything about C. Hafner/do you own some bars? Would you recommend buying gold, which essentially comes from recycled jewelry, watches... ?
     
  2. bubblebobble2

    bubblebobble2 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Unless you're using the metal for some production, ie. not investing, than it should be fine... I personally won't get them for 'rainy' day because these are recycled metals, so not Many interests when re-sell
     
  3. TreasureHunter

    TreasureHunter Well-Known Member

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    Why wouldn't you buy recycled gold for investment? It's still gold, 999.9 % fine. It's the same.

    These are sold for investment and that's exactly what I had in mind :D
     
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  4. bubblebobble2

    bubblebobble2 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Unless they're discounted to attractive price, then yes.... I wouldn't buy them @ spot + small premium, cause I know they're recycled, as well as come from non-reputable refineries... lost of these new ones come and go... so you splash significant dough that you hope that they'll still be around when you sell them.... might as well go to vegas and splash 'me there..
     
  5. Oddjob

    Oddjob Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Had a look at their site and other info.

    They seem legit, est 1850 in Germany and LBMA accredited. More digging may provide more background / info.

    http://www.lbma.org.uk/_blog/lbma_media_centre/post/ca/

    As for recycled v gold ore used, as long as it's 999 or better, what's the diff.

    If you can find a bullion dealer in your part of the world selling them, then go have a look see and ask them to test it. If it passes muster and the price is good, then why not.
     
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  6. TreasureHunter

    TreasureHunter Well-Known Member

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    But isn't this still gold? It's refined, right?

    What is wrong with the material?
     
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  7. GoldenEye

    GoldenEye Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    It's all just gold in the end, so the main issue should be the price, and maybe if it's a good looking bar.
     
  8. TreasureHunter

    TreasureHunter Well-Known Member

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    I did some research on them, it's good that they're LBMA members, but I'm still perplexed regarding the gold quality.

    It doesn't say on the packaging where it comes from, so dealers who'd buy it shouldn't have any issue with the testing part. They only test if it's gold.

    I'm not sure what the difference is in terms of the material's quality: "natural refined" Perth Mint gold vs. "recycled" C. Hafner gold. Perhaps it's like the difference between cast iron and stainless steel? Could there be such a major difference?

    Perhaps recycled gold contains air bubbles or its structurally somehow altered (perhaps also due to multiple heating processes).
     
  9. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    there is a difference, when it was previously idols then no refining/recycling would remove the devils within
    remember the lord of the ring
     
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  10. openeyes

    openeyes Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Gold is gold folks. It has been around for billions of years so you can be sure over that time it has had many different friends.

    Many refineries recover gold from jewellers which can come from old rings and fines in the process of making jewellry.

    What you are actually questioning is the refinery process - is it up to standard and this question is the same no matter the form from which gold is being refined. So I would put your attention to quality of the refiner. Just my two cents worth.
     
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  11. Oddjob

    Oddjob Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    ABC's refining business notes several sources of PM's which go into their production of PM's inc 999 gold. Extract from web page.

    Input


    ABC Refinery accepts the full range of high, medium and low grade inputs including:

    • Mined Dore Bars
    • Bars and Ingots
    • Coinage
    • Manufacturing Scrap and by-products
    • Jewellery Scrap & Lemel

    https://www.abcrefinery.com/services/refining/

    Appears same for Perth Mint.....https://www.perthmint.com/about-refinery.aspx

    Thus it's not a far reach in logic to assume that some of the silver and gold coins / bars we own were made with some level of recycled PM's.
     
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  12. ddevil

    ddevil Active Member Silver Stacker

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    What's wrong with recycled gold? I'd say quite a large percentage of bullion bars and coins are made from recycled gold? As long as it tests 99.99%, its all good
     
  13. TreasureHunter

    TreasureHunter Well-Known Member

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    I believe so, but I think Perth Mint and Rand Refinery produce bars and coins from newly extracted ore.
     
  14. whay

    whay Active Member

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    If for the same price and similar purity, I will take one that is made from newly extracted ore over the recyled ones, and especially not those from degussa's nazi looted gold!
     
  15. TreasureHunter

    TreasureHunter Well-Known Member

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    Why would Degussa be "nazi looted"?

    I think many companies are exploiting poor African workers, by the way...
     
  16. kilo

    kilo Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Why so? I know nothing of Degussa except they attract a premium. Are they a bit dodgy?
     
  17. Jason1

    Jason1 Active Member

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    Lol, Perth mint refines scrap gold and silver. Recycled gold, natural gold its all refined and made into bars and coins.
    very high change all our bars and coins would contain recycled gold and silver, from every major and minor mint. like they have any reason to discriminate. lol
    No one ever says dont buy Engelhard as they are a refinery and use recycled metals in their bars.
    WTF are you guys smoking??. what did People think these mints do with the scrap they buy?

    So as long as a refinery is legit and is known to refine to 999, there is absolutely no reason you should pass over gold or silver from them if they refine scrap gold or silver. well Unless the premium is to high Like Englehard lol
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
  18. Jason1

    Jason1 Active Member

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    well its really about their involvement in WW2, Degussa refined gold and silver for the nazi's that was taken from Jews, Degussa also used imprisoned Jewish labour force.
    But I believe if i remember my history well enough Degussa also produced the gas for the nazi's used to kill the Jews.
    I guess it is a bit like VW and other major businesses being brought up for their ww2 involvement using Jewish slaves and other atrocities during those times.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
  19. whay

    whay Active Member

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    No. Not conspiracy theory here. Even Degussa had acknowledged that as a fact. Quote from BBC :

    In June 1997, Degussa AG acknowledged on its official Web site that during Nazi rule, "Jewish citizens in Germany and the occupied neighbouring countries were forced to relinquish gold, silver and other precious metals. Most of the materials — plate silver, jewelry, old silver and silver and gold fragments — was refined at Degussa. As far as is known, the precious metals came from the Reichsbank and from state pawnbrokers."

    Degussa also admitted in January to the acquisition and "aryanization" of Jewish-owned companies, the use of forced labor and to a holding interest in Degesch, which produced the infamous Zyklon-B gas used in the death camps. Degussa noted that it was hiring an American historian to further examine its wartime role.

    Source - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/156338.stm

    https://www.jta.org/1997/07/01/life...rm-to-probe-role-in-world-war-ii-gold-looting
     
  20. bubblebobble2

    bubblebobble2 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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