"Globalisation"

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Old Codger, Dec 11, 2013.

  1. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  2. tychondus

    tychondus New Member

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    I think it's about time they updated that list. I fail to see how those 3 position are in demand. I have been applying for similar roles for 3 years with no results at all.
     
  3. SilverSaviour

    SilverSaviour New Member

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    Plenty of jobs for good software engineers/programmers.
     
  4. Newtosilver

    Newtosilver Active Member Silver Stacker

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    You should be a politician :)

    Lots of very specific jobs there, lots of engineers, nuclear medicines scientists?, nurses, barristers etc you think someone like The End is going to be able to get any of the jobs you listed there? Not everyone can do 4 years or more of Uni to go for those jobs.

    The tens of thousands of people who lost their jobs at Holden and the flow on...... That list of jobs, how many are they suitable for? I see none, The End for example is not going to be a Nuclear Medicine Scientist in the near future is he? Can't really see him as a Barrister either.

    You seem to be big on theory, lots of great ideas how things should work but in practice maybe not so much.
     
  5. SilverSaviour

    SilverSaviour New Member

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    What's stopping him from starting his own business? What about a cleaning business.
    There is even the option of buying one off the shelf (franchise) if you can't be bothered to set one up. He could be offering free work in exchange for training, I've done that before when I really needed a job, it is very effective.
    If you can't find a job it simply means you don't really want one.

    EDIT: There are plenty of jobs in that list that arnt that high skilled. Stop cherry picking to make an argument please. :)
     
  6. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Don't be a dick. There are a heap of trade-based jobs on that list for whingers like TheEnd. And that's just a list made by people willing to throw a heap of time and effort to overcome the Government's bureaucratic hurdles and ignores the opportunities for entrepreneurial people who make their own jobs.

    From first principles:
    Do you or do you not not trade with others around you?
    Do you or do you not think that it is better to use unproductive people in your business when you have the option to employ a more productive person in order to obtain a product of a given quality?

    Answer them honestly and ignore any nonsense about where things come from and focus on what actually ends up producing goods and services that people want to buy at the lowest cost.

    No one is "entitled" to a job. No one is "entitled" to the products of others. Peaceful cooperation between people is what makes the things around you possible. To whinge about someone else (or a machine) "taking your job" is to believe that you are "entitled" by the rest of society to provide you with the material comforts that you enjoy and not that these material comforts were rewards freely given to you for you helping society produce more and/or better things than any individual could ever possibly make by themselves. Work in a market economy is helping to remove the obstacles of others. If you are so utterly useless that there is no obstacle that you can help remove then you have no right to the fruits of other's labours.

    A protectionist attitude is nothing but a selfish entitlement mentality whereby you reckon you should be given things created by others with no effort on your part. It is parasitic and immoral.
     
  7. Newtosilver

    Newtosilver Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Plenty of jobs in that list that are not highly skilled? Am I looking at the wrong list? I'll show the list to a friend that is underemployed and I will tell him there are lots of jobs and get back to you with what he says :)

    There is a lot of stuff mentioned that is really great in theory but will it actually work in practice? I think not....
     
  8. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Is it possible for Australia to lose its current high terms of trade (as a result of the "globalisation" trend)? Of course.
    Do we deserve or are we entitled to our high terms of trade? Of course not.
    In an age where people and ideas are relatively free to move can we protect it forever? Of course not.
    Can you adapt to the changing environment and still be relatively better off? Of course. Innovation is always needed to keep one ahead of the curve.
    Can you adapt to the changing environment and still be relatively worse off? Of course. Innovation is never guaranteed to succeed.
     
  9. Byron

    Byron Guest

    That list is one big joke. Most of those jobs already have an oversupply of applicants. Plumbers? Landscapers? Early childhood? Stonemason? :lol:

    Really shows what a fantasy land bored silver lives in. For a libertarian he is quoting a badly misleading govt website.
     
  10. Newtosilver

    Newtosilver Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Ouch that hurt......... I stand by what I said, very big on theory but practically maybe not so much.

    It is common sense, if you import the vast majority of stuff from overseas and loose employment here and then do not export much you will have a deficit. The jobs you loose here need to be replaced with something that can not be done cheaper overseas. Not everyone is going to be a Nuclear scientist, doctor, etc. you need to have jobs for people who do not go to Uni.

    Basic maths, our standard of living is going to drop here in Australia and it will rise in Asia, saying well we should just do something else is great. Agreed we do need to do something else but the question is what are we going to do? Practically the things you mention I really can not see happening.
     
  11. SilverSaviour

    SilverSaviour New Member

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    Except we are not really losing jobs here are we ?
    There would probably be more people employed if it wasn't for minimum wage laws and rampant welfare.
    Like I already said, it is bloody easy to get a job if you really want one.

    Your other point, imports being great than imports. This is a common mistake to make.
    Do you know what the capital account is ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_account

    You are only talking about imports/exports, this totally ignores the effects of foreign investment.
    Money leaves the country buy importing stuff, money comes back by exporting stuff but the stuff we export is investment opportunities.

    Remember when Australian Dollars end up in China, they don't vanish. They are useless IN China because they have their own currency.
    Chinese then invest in Australia, sending all the money back. Full Circle!
     
  12. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I actually gave you very practical advice as well. Besides simply replacing the existing productive workers as they retire and begin to produce what they currently produce, if you want to share in the goods that other people can make very efficiently (food, clothing, shelter etc) then you need to provide services that help remove obstacles out of their way.

    Become an agri-scientist and help the farmer find ways to obtain higher yields than before. Become a robotics engineer and help the manufacturer cut their costs. Become a better boiler maker than current ones and improve the quality and/or quantity of usefully constructed things. Become an engineer and design better solutions to buildings, bridges, machines, LNG tankers, electricity networks etc. Become a mechanic and help maintain the machinery that the farmer uses to obtain better yields from less labour. Become a tax accountant and help the farmer focus on what he does best rather than trying to keep up to date on tax law. Become a sales assistant for the Japanese machine manufacturer and help them get the best performing machines to the people who use them. Help the third world person learn about labour saving methods or even provide the seed capital to them by investing in their enterprises.

    By doing any of these things the producers of food, clothing, shelter etc will automatically share some of their production with you. You get food, clothing, shelter etc - they get to produce more food, clothing, shelter etc than they could previously. Win-win through division of labour and trade. Once people have their basic needs met (which for us in first-world countries like Australia is pretty much everybody) then there's a whole gamut of additional opportunities to obtain your needs and wants by entertaining and serving people and increasing their happiness and enjoyment of life, so become an artist, musician, choreography, dancer, chef, takeaway burger flipper, retail shop assistant, Christmas bauble designer, stripper, internet blogger etc etc.

    Don't focus on what other people will do if they lose their job, focus on what you can do if you lost your job. Everyone else should be doing exactly the same thing. There are literally millions of ways of helping others currently and millions more that people haven't thought of yet or which have been too expensive for people to afford.

    Stop worrying about what will happen if "our" exports are less than "our" imports because the "our" is simply an arbitrary sub-grouping of the people on the planet as a result of geography. Just as your personal trade with others is self correcting, so is everybody else's. Australia is simply the aggregation of roughly 23 million individuals, each of which can only ever have temporary trade deficits. If "we" run out of things to export that the Chinese want (including exporting currency or the hope of future returns) then our terms of trade will fall and many opportunities that weren't previously economic will suddenly become economic. Entrepreneurs will exploit those opportunities to the benefit of "us". What you should really worry about is the Government creating stupid regulations and barriers to the entrepreneurs and labour market working efficiently and the bad price signals they give us through their monopoly on currency. These are the things that will definitely bring down our quality of life (and already do), not your "globalisation".
     
  13. Newtosilver

    Newtosilver Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Chinese invest in Australia? By buying property for example such as farms and housing? So we buy masses of stuff from them then the money they get they buy Australian property for example? Or Australian companies? Therefore the jobs that are left are working for foreign companies which then make a profit and send those profits offshore? Or they may reinvest it but buying more Australian companies or properties? Because obviously they can't use AUD in China for example or with that money they have made they could lend it back to us and we could pay interest on it?

    Seems like that is not a good idea, well to me at least but I am not as well read as some other people, maybe I should get more into the theory of it.

    I am going to leave it there, we are never going to agree on this.
     
  14. AngloSaxon

    AngloSaxon Active Member

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    TheEnd's qualifications of Diesel Mechanic are in that list, as are a whole lot of allied and similar trades that wouldn't take much retraining or re-skilling at TAFE to become qualified in. I agree with SilverSaviour, you've cherry picked to suit your argument
     
  15. Byron

    Byron Guest

    Anglo, I see a whole lot of very specialised medical/paramedical jobs on that list. As well as other jobs requiring highly specialised tertiary training. Even so the number of jobs in these highly specialised fields is not large.

    The other large segment on this list is trades. Where i live at least there is oversupply of tradies, with the Koreans/Chinese undercutting all of them.

    This list is pure and utter garbage, designed by a govt to attract potential migrants to an already severely underemployed (15%) and unemployed (10%) country.

    Globalisation has decreased the number/type of opportunities available to Aussies despite what several hucksters on this forum insist.
     
  16. SilverSaviour

    SilverSaviour New Member

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    Did you see "worker" ?? Or did your bias get in the way of that one ?

    I wonder how long the tafe course for worker or labourer is, do you know ?
    No it hasn't.
     
  17. AngloSaxon

    AngloSaxon Active Member

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    Are you talking about the skilled workers on the list being in oversupply, or just generic tradesmen. Are the Koreans/Chinese you mention skilled workers or unskilled labourers employed by an entrepreneurial businessman to do work in imitation of the skilled ones. Family story - family member used a team of new immigrants to replace his roof after a leak developed inside. They were not skilled and experienced roofers, they were just labourers. 5 years of failures of the replacement roof, and he called out a proper roofer (and an Australian) for a look. Result, work done again this time by the skilled (Australian) roofers who actually understood how water works and flows. Seems simple doesn't it but it took skilled workers to solve the problem.

    If Koreans/Chinese are undercutting local tradesman, that is a cultural problem of Australian people using the cheapest available despite the forseeable but unknown consequences like my family member and his roof.

    I don't agree, if I had stayed an External Auditor I would by now either have served time working in that vocation either in the UK, east coast of the US, or a whole range of Asian destinations from Singapore to Shanghai. And used the experience/knowledge when I eventually came home.
     

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