"Globalisation"

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Old Codger, Dec 11, 2013.

  1. Old Codger

    Old Codger Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Sounded good 20+ years or so ago, at least to me, now it seems that it was just a suicide note for western manufacturing.

    It may feel good to screw the boss for an extra $100 a week, but you lose in the end.

    Vale GMH.


    OC
     
  2. Newtosilver

    Newtosilver Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Yeah I do not think it has been a positive thing for Western countries.
     
  3. errol43

    errol43 New Member Silver Stacker

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    Are you referring to MP's and CEO's. $100 a week :)

    There will be nothing left here except retail.

    Regards Errol 43
     
  4. Greg Williams

    Greg Williams Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    The United Nations Lima Declaration of 1975
    This video tells you how it happened from the Australian perspective of how & why our manufacturing industries were to be transferred to 3rd world countries

    The following are some of the recommendations of The Lima Declaration.
    Resolution 27 -------- Developed Countries such as Australia should expand it's imports from developing countries.

    Resolution 28 ------ Requires that developing countries increase their Industrial growth by more than the 8% recommended in earlier United Nations meetings and increase their exports by 350% by year 2000.

    Resolution 35 -------- Developed Countries (Australia) should transfer technical, financial, and capital goods to developing countries to accomplish resolution 28 above.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9aHC2tSmRM[/youtube]
     
  5. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Just posted in another thread.

     
  6. tychondus

    tychondus New Member

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    @ bordsilver

    in theory communism works....
     
  7. Newtosilver

    Newtosilver Active Member Silver Stacker

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    I see globalisation as a very good thing for developing countries they will be much better off. For western countries I see it as a very bad thing if you look at standard of living, wages etc.

    There always will be winners and losers in any situation, I see countries such as Australia as the losers.
     
  8. Byron

    Byron Guest

    Frankly im sick of the low quality (imported) Asian junk that is around these days in just about every area. Nothing seems to last anymore - furniture, whitegoods, clothing, toys. Whats worse, once trusted names like Bosch, Mercedes, Braun, Grundig etc have also offsourced to China/Asia. Even once quality leather lounges from Gascoigne (WA company) have frames built in Malaysia and are no longer as good as the old all Australian made ones.
     
  9. Old Codger

    Old Codger Active Member Silver Stacker

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    "There always will be winners and losers in any situation, I see countries such as Australia as the losers."


    The 'industrialised west' is certainly the loser. The low cost asian nations are teh winners and i canotsee any economuic future fr us with that equations staring us in the face.

    It costs a man maybe $20 a week to support his family, and $1000 a week to support ours. He can work for peanuts and beat us every time.

    JMO


    OC
     
  10. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Before restating the same non-argument you still need to find a flaw with Bastiat's core arguments and/or with the principle that division of labour is beneficial. I'll give you a hint - there isn't any flaw. Excepting our stupid government Australia will benefit as well - it's impossible not to whilst we are trading with the self same developing country winners.

    Continuous voluntary trade between between individuals is welfare enhancing for both parties. It's win-win not win-lose or lose-lose.
     
  11. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    References? There are many works showing that communism fails in theory as well as in practice - principally because of the economic calculation problem.
     
  12. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    If it was ever as simplistic as this then please tell me why we didn't already "lose" due to our huge wage differential with Japan in the 1960's? Or our wage differential with Taiwan in the 1980's? etc

    If working for peanuts was the critical factor in hamstringing further growth in a developed economy then by that logic no developed country should ever have developed beyond the first couple of decades of the industrial revolution.
     
  13. Holdfast

    Holdfast Well-Known Member

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    The tide will change.

    When Asian workers get sick of being paid crap wages the tide will change.

    They too want those goods "they" make for the West and... one-day they won't settle for working 12 hour days in a sweat-shop for crap money.

    The tide will change and when it does it's going to make the Tsunami that hit japan on Friday 11 March 2011 look like a kid throwing a rock in a pond.

    Democracy and capitalism is coming to China and...the Communists have no way of stopping it.

    H
     
  14. Newtosilver

    Newtosilver Active Member Silver Stacker

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    I am in Asia now, where I am now you work or you are homeless on the street and you beg to survive. If you do not want to work in a factory or a "normal" job you set up your own business maybe cooking food on the side of the road on a cart. The culture here is you work for what you can get or you have a very crappy life and you die an early death.

    They are also much more focused on looking after each other and family which I like.

    People expect corruption, say something here against the grain and someone will stab you to death or the police will lock you up. That is how it is. It is not like the west, as a westerner here you get a free pass on a lot of stuff but there is certain things you do not do or you can find yourself in BIG trouble.

    There are things that are tolerated and things that are not, if factory workers said they wanted their wages quadrupled or more that would be something they would not tolerate. Products need to be produced cheaply, if they don't someone else will provide it cheaply and they will loose out.

    I Australia there is a sense of "I deserve at least $xx an hour and if I do not get it I will go on welfare, how am I expected to live on less than $25 an hour?" Also work hours, an Australian will want to work a max of 38 hours a week because it is the norm. In parts of Asia it is expected you work 60 hours a week for example. That is why a lot of the meat works now bring in labour from China and Brazil, they do not ask for wage rises and they do not whinge and want more unlike Australian workers.

    There is a reason why things are done, big companies are not stupid they just want to maximise profits.
     
  15. Newtosilver

    Newtosilver Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Bastiat's arguments may be great in theory, I could find some article or report that says how great an idea it was for the roof insulation scheme was. In practice though it did not work out so well though.

    Have a look at how many jobs have been lost in Australia and the USA, look at Detriot and the collapses of the manufacturing industry. How did it work out for them? Detriot was the place back in the 50's and 60's now it is bankrupt. Cars that were made there are now made in Asia.


    Look at debt levels in the West, who is a huge amount of money owed to? China....
     
  16. tychondus

    tychondus New Member

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    Of course it doesn't work. It was a satirical comment at your view on how globalization is great. Which i and many others do not share.

    From an economic point of view, yes globalization looks great (for the elites). However, it makes no sense whatsoever to transfer skills and knowledge without getting something beneficial in return. I am interested knowing what it is that we benefited from this experiment. Can you give evidence of how Australians in general have benefited from this massive transfer of skills and knowledge?

    Also could you please elaborate on you repeating comment "division of labour is beneficial". The example that keeps coming to my mind is something like this 'xxx country will provide services for goods made in yyy country'. If what i am thinking is correct. Could please elaborate on how this is beneficial for either of the citizens in these countries (as opposed to a few elites)? I personally don't see how it benefits the citizens of either countries.
     
  17. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    From what I can gather Asian countries are perfectly capable of making top quality products. However the demand for top quality, and therefore higher cost items is not nearly so high as it is for cheap items.

    The west wants cheap items so Asian gives them what they want and then when the cheap items break the west blames it on Asia.

    This is different to 'planned obsolescence' items which are designed to break, like lightbulbs after 1000 hours.

    I read somewhere that there are about four levels of Asian fakes, ranging from items coming out of the same factories as the originals, but in excess of what the orignal company ordered, basically genuine items offered at prices closer to their manufacturing costs. With your Ponasonic electrical items and Adidos trainers at the bottom.

    Byron: As to Grundig... I went to Harvey Normas to buy an internet radio, last year they had some Grundig radios for $60. I asked for them this year and was told that Grundig hadn't been a company for years. They just rent the name out for 5 years at a time and companies make cheap products and slap the name Grundig on it. Same thing with my Sharp laptop which never worked.
     
  18. Old Codger

    Old Codger Active Member Silver Stacker

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    bordsilver,

    "If it was ever as simplistic as this then please tell me why we didn't already "lose" due to our huge wage differential with Japan in the 1960's? Or our wage differential with Taiwan in the 1980's? etc"


    WE DID start to lose then. Back about then Australia actually made TV sets and radios etc. They soon disappeared from our shops, and from then on the loss of manufacturing became ever more obvious. NOW you can hardly find a "Made in Australia' label anywhere. It was process over 40 years or so. Nobody suggested it happened overnight!

    Back in about 1965 Australia actually made ~600,000 cars in Australia. Now they are closing down.

    The process is nearly complete.

    OC
     
  19. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    If you haven't already, check out Adam Smith on the topic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Smith
     
  20. Holdfast

    Holdfast Well-Known Member

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    Chinese are not stupid people.

    In this generation or...next they'll be getting 25 bucks an hour and not working as a serf.

    Unfortunately there's folk in China who are indoctrinated to work for crap money and conditions and...as you rightly pointed-out a crook regime. Many countries have been liberated from evil and your countries time will come.

    Of course the bosses live in luxury and...do they care...of course not.

    Australians are not stupid either...they realise that corporations make huge profits and...thank goodness they have the brains to ask for a decent wage.

    If they go on welfare as you say (Which is a Bullshite / a minority) then...all they are doing is getting back some of their hard-earned tax dollars that they paid.

    When communism falls and it will fall...you will see a new China.
     

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