Folau believes only one thing...

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by bubblebobble2, Apr 11, 2019.

  1. mrsilverservice

    mrsilverservice Well-Known Member

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    So it starts today :)

    Go Izzy Go :D














    The Book of Corinthians - Corinthians 1 Chapter 6 verses 9 & 10

    No [email protected]# or $%^ or &*( or *() etc will inherit the Kingdom of God :)
     
  2. mrsilverservice

    mrsilverservice Well-Known Member

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    The second week of Izzy's (our) court case,I wonder what the fly on the wall is hearing o_O

    I wonder how long it might be before we get our decision knowing the potential implications :confused:

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    The Book of Psalms Chapter 62 verse 8

    Trust in Him at all times,you people,pour out your heart before Him,God is a refuge for us :)
     
  3. Oddjob

    Oddjob Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    The case (in court) hasn't kicked off in court yet, only the application by Folau v RA and NSW Rugby back on 1 Aug or thereabouts. Still a lot of off the ball play to happen before the courts set a date for each side to appear and start arguing their cases. As it stands at the moment, the respondents (RA and NSW Rugby) have 28 days from the date the application was lodged to advise the court of their intentions and to provide documents as appropriate.

    This has a long way to play out. Next preliminary hearing will be in Sept (I guess based on above timeline) at which a court date maybe set. No guarantee that will be in this year either subject to court case loads.

    http://www.federalcircuitcourt.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/fccweb/about/media/pic/folau

    As they say in the classics "Hurry up and wait".
     
  4. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Interesting article on the ABC website:

    For many years, prominent Australian conservatives have campaigned to uphold "the tradition of free speech". After Andrew Bolt was found to have breached racial vilification laws in 2011, that campaign intensified. And yet virtually all those who loudly campaign in support of free speech jettison their principles at the first sign of views they disagree with.

    They are the same pundits who called for the sacking of employees who expressed left-wing or otherwise controversial views: like Scott McIntyre, Catherine Deveny, Roz Ward and Angela Williamson, to name just a few. In each case, the employer argued the employee's expression brought it into disrepute. In doing so they capitulated to the loudest, angriest voices echoing throughout the coliseum.

    Tim Wilson is another conservative who has forcefully brandished his commitment to "freedom" ever since he was recruited into the Institute of Public Affairs. But when SBS sacked soccer journalist Scott McIntyre over his controversial tweets about Anzac Day, Mr Wilson resiled from his commitment to free speech.

    Echoing the views recently expressed by Father Brennan, and Dr Longstaff, he argued McIntyre could choose between expressing his controversial views about Anzac Day or paid employment with SBS. Mr Wilson added that the, "idea that McIntyre's free speech was compromised was rubbish".

    Tribalism trumps principle
    Why do those who so loudly invoke principle so easily dispense with it? The answer is tribalism.

    In the Folau case, many progressives instinctively disapprove of Folau's views and want his employer to mete out severe punishment. This is understandable. There is a legitimate question about whether Folau's pronouncements constitute a form of anti-gay hate speech and whether such speech causes harm — particularly to younger members of the gay community.

    The arguments for and against

    There is also a legitimate question about whether we need a federal law that provides recourse to those harmed by anti-gay hate speech. With the Federal Government intent on introducing religious freedom legislation, this issue may become even more relevant.

    But those cheering on the loss of Folau's livelihood and career have undermined the cause of countless other employees who espouse controversial progressive views and suffer the same fate.

    Employment contracts and the dark arts of brand management are being selectively deployed to suppress participation in the democratic process. There should be no exception to the universality of human rights discourse for Folau.

    When employees are fired in such circumstances, they are unlikely to find comparable employment. Folau is a professional rugby player. Where can he work now?

    First, there's the notoriety associated with the sacking, which will dog him for a long time. Second, if Rugby Australia's position is upheld in court, he will surely be asked to sign a similar template employment contract that he can't possibly comply with.

    While Folau's views are objectionable and arguably even hate speech, perpetual unemployment is a grossly disproportionate punishment. If he is to be punished for expressing such views, it should be because he has contravened laws promulgated by a democratically elected government.

    And he should still be able to go to work.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-07/israel-folau-should-be-able-to-go-back-to-work/11386826

     
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  5. bubblebobble2

    bubblebobble2 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    ehem.... he did pocket more than $2.5M from the crowd funding, so he pretty much well-off for atleast 2 years

    PS - All Blacks seems to be the front runner as most ex-Wallabies end up there anyway
     
  6. GoldenEye

    GoldenEye Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I believe the $2.5M has been set aside and can only be used for his legal fight, so he can't use these funds for his family's living expenses at all.

    To me it seems ridiculous to think that he's put himself and his family through this to gain money. It appears that he's more interested in being able to freely speak about his religious beliefs. After all, his religion requires him to spread the word and inform others of his beliefs. So maybe he believes he's just doing what God requires by quoting the Bible.
     
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  7. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Should indigenous players who refuse to stand or acknowledge the national anthem be ineligible for Australian selection?

    I would argue yes. I’d be interested to hear the thoughts on this from Folau supporters.

    I must point out that I also don’t acknowledge the Australian anthem, but I do stand at sporting events out of fear of being bashed by packs of crazed national-socialists.
     
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  8. mrsilverservice

    mrsilverservice Well-Known Member

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    Praise The Lord and pass the ammunition :D

    Izzy's court case starts tomorrow,looking forward to the result in :confused: weeks.

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    The Book of Psalms Chapter 62 verse 1

    Truly my souls silently waits for God,from Him comes my salvation :)
     
  9. Oddjob

    Oddjob Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Keep ya powder dry, it's only a directions hearing tomorrow...ie admin, affidavits, requests to the Judge for something or other...all lawyer stuff pre trail etc. The fun won't start for a while..and the judgement will probably take longer to deliver than the allotted time set down the case. This is just the bands warming up.
     
  10. bubblebobble2

    bubblebobble2 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    of course we all think he will use the fund to pay legal fees.. but we never know as he's always avoided this question, even when GoFundMe period gone viral.

    Folau only believes one thing, and one thing only,
    "Show me the MONEY!!!!"
     
  11. zedstrange

    zedstrange Member

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    Thats completely false, Israel Folau has pocketed $0 from crowd funding and never will get a cent, its not possible.

    The ACL under their charitible organisation structure has raised that money and its held in trust. Using that money is subject to compliance with Aust Govt law. The ACNC has already been flooded with complaints from the angry crowd demanding (as they do to everyone) that ACL be investigated over 'llegal crowdfunding'. T

    The idea that any of these funds can be used for any personal purpose is totally without any foundation.
     
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  12. Oddjob

    Oddjob Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    There you have it, put away the popcorn, get ready to dust of the Xmas dec's and enjoy so media quiet on this till 2020.

    https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...istraction-fears-allayed-20190813-p52gjt.html

    Folau court date set: Potential Wallabies World Cup distraction fears allayed
    Georgina Robinson
    Updated August 13, 2019 — 12.00pmfirst published at 11.25am


    Rugby Australia will avoid a potentially embarrassing distraction during the Wallabies' World Cup campaign after their legal fight with former star Israel Folau looks set to stretch into the new year.

    Folau's unlawful termination case against his former employers RA and the NSW Waratahs has been set down for a potential three-to five-day trial in the Federal Circuit Court on February 4 next year.

    Sydney's gay and inclusive rugby team says the perception that rugby is "macho" is wrong.

    The date means Australia's World Cup campaign will proceed without the ongoing shadow of former first-choice fullback Folau hanging over them, although it will collide with the start of the Waratahs' new Super Rugby season, which kicks off in the first week of February.

    However, Federal Circuit Court Chief Judge Will Alstergren made it clear in court on Tuesday morning that the parties would be expected to attempt mediation by the middle of December.

    Folau’s barrister, high profile employment law expert Stuart Wood QC, accused RA of trying to delay proceedings by applying to have the matter moved to the Federal Court or to the Federal Circuit Court’s Sydney base.

    “There is no merit in the application and it will only lead to delay and increased costs,” Wood told the court, adding that his team were conscious there would be more attempts to delay proceedings.

    “We want the court to know what is going on in the background.”

    RA’s barrister, Adam Hochroth, from Banco Chambers, denied RA was trying to hold up the process.

    “The application was not brought to cause delay,” Hochroth said.

    Judge Alstergren did not rule on the application but earlier noted that the Federal Circuit Court was the appropriate court for an employment law case and that Folau had a common law right to choose where his case should be heard.

    “I am not going to allow anything to delay proceedings,” he said, responding to Wood’s concerns.

    Folau was not in court on Tuesday.

    The case’s “public interest” status also became a talking point during Tuesday’s hearing.

    The court has opened up an online file where select documents - such as any applications made in the case - will be deposited for public viewing.

    Hochroth asked that if material from RA’s code of conduct tribunal was submitted in evidence, both parties be given a period of up to three days to review it and consult with their clients before it be made public, with the view to potentially redacting sections of the material.
    The tribunal, which found in May that Folau should be sacked for committing a high-level breach of the professional players’ code of conduct, was a closed process. RA requires permission from the Rugby Union Players’ Association (RUPA) to make public any material from it.

    In response, Judge Alstergren said the court would balance the “significant public interest in the case against the rights of all parties”.
     
  13. GoldenEye

    GoldenEye Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    It's obvious to me that if it was just the money Folau would have done what he was told, and he would be still playing rugby, and raking it in.

    How was he to know that he would have so much support that it would pay for his legal fees?
     
  14. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Folau believes that his god takes a direct interest in him (and everyone else of course) and takes real and immediate action to reward, punish and encourage good behaviour.

    For example he believes that previously God damaged Folau's ankle, putting him out of play for a number of weeks, in order to punish him for vanity and pride in his achievements on field.

    I think that sort of mentality means he would see 2.5 million as his god's direct involvement and confirmation that Folau is acting righteously.

    I think Foleau Jnr is sincere, and I also think he's not too bright, and so has the world interpreted for him by his father, who knows exactly where that 2.5 million came from and why.

    I also think that his temporal father has plans for a new church, which 2.5 million would help immensely, since his son's sporting career seems to be grinding toward a not so lucrative future.

    Also, with the trial being delayed so long, I'd say RA called in favours and secret handshakes to bury the case long enough for it to dwindle away to the sporting pages and off the front page. I also think RA would not care if Folau never played again.
     
  15. milled

    milled Active Member

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    cheap shot shiny
    how many actual Nazis at a footy game, goose stepping up to get some hot chips?
    the only uniform there are the heavy security patrols, sniffing for the faintest shred of toxic masculinity

    if you don't stand for the anthem at a footy game, you are a wanker. Reason - the crowd are literally forking out $60+ to see you kick a ball around and most of them dislike divisive leftwing politics of this kind inserted into what should be an entertainment event they paid for

    I would not say "ineligible". That is ridiculous. But by basically flipping a political bird at at least half and most likely more of the audience, probably the greater majority, you make a rod your own back. Nobody should pretend to like you for it. Especially when the audience can't fight back verbally nowadays. Not even a loud booh! LOL

    what you deviously frame as crazy nat soc is the rank and file Australian. People whose grandparents and great uncles fought, were maimed and killed fighting against actual National Socialism.

    perhaps you'd care to share why such people deserve sledging as "crazed national-socialists"? That seems a highly leftist fork of the tongue there. Thought you cast yourself as libertarian?
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  16. milled

    milled Active Member

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    The 2.5million came from people such as myself and a few others here. You'd be amazed at how many people will come together - this was not just fundamentalist Christians, but also those sympathetic to what his disendorsement represents, those tired of the double standard when it comes to free speech, where it is ok to push leftwing ideology that others find grossly offensive and socially corrosive, but where not just bigotry but actual loss of employment follows publication of a religious opinion, one which not only do many share in a country with Christian roots, but which was tolerated openly until the RGR government and its strong attacks of freedom of speech.

    If you actually believe in this form of liberty, it is not hard to materially support Folau. This is why when GoFundMe canned his fundraiser, it rebounded like a short squeeze. That pissed off even more people, especially when you look at WHO runs GoFundMe and all the leftwing stuff they give a free pass on.
     
  17. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    If a player wishes to represent his/her country then the expectation is that they abide by the social norms of that country which include honouring the national anthem, and that as an employer, the ARL or ARU should be well within their rights to insist that players who do not honour the national anthem be ineligible for selection to represent their country. If you can't stand for a national anthem you can hardly play for a national team.

    Bullshit. They're not rank and file Australians, those in awe of Katter, Hanson and that other Qld loser whose name escapes me and lost the election are just right wing fundamentalists who echo the mundane ignorant mutterings of their idols.

    Check out the policies of the parties they support. Now I'll state there are some policies that do enhance liberty, eg Katter's tree-clearing, but the vast majority of their policies are dangerous, stupid and anti-liberty.

    Nationalising industries, closing the doors to foreign workers, false pricing in the marketplace, subsidising the cost of living for some at the expense of others, imposing restrictions on private property, reducing choice for consumers, limiting population growth etc etc. All of them are typical national-socialist policies. They're called national-socialists for a very good reason ie they are right-wing socialists.

    Edit to add: and libertarians will come across as lefties at times, we are fiscally conservative yet socially progressive after all. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
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  18. milled

    milled Active Member

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    Your context of a national team is fair enough. I was thinking more in terms of the anthem being played in state or interstate teams as well. Still, a situation of free speech would resolve such tensions. If a player decided to try it on, he would soon find out what the crowd thought of that. Instead suppressing player and crowd seems anti-liberty and is de jure.

    You said, ".. I also don’t acknowledge the Australian anthem, but I do stand at sporting events out of fear of being bashed by packs of crazed national-socialists."

    You seriously think you are going to be bashed by a bunch of people going to the footy? That is hyperbole. How much tamer could it be?

    I don't think any of these footy fans has a picture of "Der Fuehrer" on the mantlepiece, nor will you find battle plans to invade Poland on their bookshelf.

    Was it the parades of people in cane hats, lit by torches of Bundy that intimidated you into standing for the anthem, or their huge swastika flags and ferocious standard bearers holding up portraits of Katter and Hanson?


    When you say right wing, you seem to mean socially conservative, if a comparison may be drawn to your "fiscally conservative" (both in a politically corrupt debt fiat system)

    It would be fair to say most PHON or even Katter supporters wish to preserve their social traditions and culture, not have their kinship trammelled or replaced.

    Would you do this to Aboriginal communities linked to their land as they are, simply because they are "too Aboriginal"? They use the old fashioned term "nation" to describe tribe linked to land. This is something of a relic though the term in this sense is also clearly seen in the Bible.

    There are some things more important than money. Life itself and our connections to each other should be the foundation of society, I think, not replaced with abstractions as the core.

    What is socially "progressive" about diluting social groups with others to the point society can no longer be recognised as it was?

    I'm all for closing the doors to foreign workers if the result of the open door is direct competition to the point that your own citizens are out of work and your suicide and drug death rates explode as is happening in the USA. To think otherwise lacks compassion to your fellow citizens. It is social Darwinism. It might actually work if there were no ties between people but the reality is there are.
     
  19. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    That's actually not too far fetched Milled. The scariest thing around here on Saturday afternoons is carloads of 'fans' with Aussie flags on the aerial and a few beers in.

    Ol' Remus says wise people stay away from crowds. I'd add, especially those shouting slogans.
     
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  20. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    @milled , your post touches on a lot of separate topics and as I’m on a phone I’ll keep my response brief.

    I’m a huge critic of traditional Aboriginal society. I argue that their traditions are the main source of their social problems. It’s an archaic society in need of a reformation. But you won’t catch me saying that in public.

    Socially progressive policies are those that are designed to enhance freedoms, they’re not about diluting culture.

    Many industries (including the agricultural and hospitality industries) rely on itinerant workers because the nature of the industries doesn’t suit locals in need of full time work - yet it suits local consumers who demand to have their needs for Australian produce met! Pineapples don’t get picked on a 38 hour week roster 52 weeks of the year complete with 10 days sick leave, 9.5% in superannuation contributions and a million years of maternity leave. And you will catch me saying that in public.
     
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