http://www.myfoxny.com/story/19578206/fake-gold-bars-turn-up-in-manhattan "In jewelry stores on 47th Street and Fifth Avenue the important trust between merchants has been violated. A 10-ounce gold bar costing nearly $18,000 turned out to be a counterfeit. The bar was filled with tungsten, which weighs nearly the same as gold but costs just over a dollar an ounce. ... What makes so devious is a real gold bar is purchased with the serial numbers and papers, then it is hollowed out, the gold is sold, the tungsten is put in, then the bar is closed up. That is a sophisticated operation."
I wonder if that's a gold ring? An ultrasonic tester would have picked that up in a second. No need to drill.
I call BS on the bar being hollowed out - that looks like a counterfeit cladding. Very sophisticated counterfeit though in probably what is genuine PAMP packaging. Jailbreak a real bar, replace it with a fake. Ultrasonic would have detected that - see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89ATeNy3DIo for the video of a poor effort at a silver bar that was the same type of fake - thick cladding over a fake core. MTB is a PAMP distributor for the US, very reputable. Video wasn't clear on whether they were involved in the supply chain for this bar or not, or whether they were just approached for comment - would have been nice to know where the bars were sourced, i.e. a distributor or a buyback. Horrible to think that they might be getting substituted within the supply chain by malicious individuals in a position of trust.
I'm curious why such reputable dealers in places like New York would not be using a ultrasonic. I feel bad for the guy i guess if hes purchased from the same source in the past with no problems like any business you gain trust. Anyway fake bars, my moneys on eastern Europeans or China
The worrying thing about that counterfeit is the quality - it would not be the only one out there! Betting there's more to be discovered. The serial number may actually be of assistance in tracking down the point at which it was substituted, if any sales records were kept. Trouble is I don't think most dealers record serials with sales, but at least the distribution channel may have. Thanks for this thread - it's been shared on the Australian Bullion Dealers Network.
Just for any of our newer members or non-member readers I usually find it good to read some of the old threads which discuss how to avoid fakes and the like - we don't want to scare people off given it is a relatively minor (but totally scary) issue. Here's one decent thread but I remember there are a few others that have popped up over time. http://forums.silverstackers.com/message-78763.html#p78763 GP - do you reckon it's a good idea to have a clean-up sticky on the topic of fakes?
Also of note - those bars are not in tamper-proof packaging. Not hard to bust out staples and replace them. ...but it comes with a certificate!!
I doubt it has been hollowed out, looks like gold plate has been minted around a tungsten bar. The hollow out thing I think is just a stupid reporter's intepretation of what happened. From my reading it doesn't seem like MTB/PAMP supply chain involved, just a dealer buying from a customer. I reckon the dealer didn't take them out of the plastic and weigh each one individually because he trusted the guy. That was his downfall. It is a common scam to build up trust with someone with legitimate transactions and then pulling the fraud.
When you consider how little some people in China make. A fake 1oz gold bar could net many months' wages. They would probably mass-produce 1oz bars.
while this thread is hot, can someone please point me in the right direction or explain exactly how to do specific gravity testing
Reading some of the comments in the ZH article, does anyone know what these guys are on about? Or is it just ZH groupie paranoid drivel? http://www.zerohedge.com/news/tungs...e-manhattans-jewelry-district#comment-2809349 They were first sighted in Australia about two years ago filled with Chinese junk metal. About five seconds later the government shut up really fast and hushed the media. It is still talked about with quite a bit of venom on the Australian blogs, only place you'll find it. All those people took delivery for their security and were handed a pound of lead. It either means the government licked the center out of the oreo cookie, or the chinese swapped steel contract for real gold and delivered back the "gold" on request. Either way...my bet is on China buying up lots of gold since the shitstorm began. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/tungs...e-manhattans-jewelry-district#comment-2809625 O'Callaghans tungsten deposit near its flagship Telfer gold mine in Western Australia. You got chocolate in my peanute butter...fuck no, you dipped your tungsten in my gold pot. 2008-2010 : It was the equivalent of the Aussie BreX...now it's looking like it'll get a lot bigger. Again, lots of bloger blogs with the reference material. But the mine names and the timeline should jog your memory. It was big international press, then it just vanished as soon as the word BreX slipped from someones lips. Yeah..a lot bigger, theives operate on greed not on sense...if people are passing the buck on this nonsense across ocean's over eBay and through direct banking channels. Well...it's time for people to double check their stacks. Not kidding either.
There was a good description in the thread I linked to earlier (see a few posts up) This one is pretty good http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=39666 ..and this one from Peter http://forums.silverstackers.com/message-391058.html#p391058 It takes a bit of work to think about and do the first time but quite easy once you get the hang of it (a few of the site sponsors should be able to help if any issues).
Thanks for the link. Made by bad people. Government to discredit Gold? Or bad people to make $? Some group went to a lot of effort to do this.... Either to make Gold buying look dodgy or to make paper profit. Bad guys in suits & ties from government of crims?
I'm going with that the jeweller had a hand in it , a lot of work went into making it . So somebody with jewellery experience , not made by a backyarder .
That's why I stick to coins personally. The detail on the facing is hard to replicate, plus the grooves on the rim (reeding?) make tampering fairly impossible to do flawlessly. Basically, at todays prices (lookout future!), it wouldn't be worth the effort to hollow out a 1oz gold coin and put a tungsten round in it. You'd still have to buy the 1/2oz of gold that stays in the coin - so we're talking a lot of stuffing around to earn ~$850 per coin. IMO for people that are really scared, get even smaller coins. 1/4oz or 1/10oz are just not practical, even at five times current prices. At least until technology changes perhaps. Lookout for 3D metal printers eh?
From the ZH comments section (FWIW): So for fixed size PMs, particularly coins, fakes are quite detectable by the sounds.
^^^ GP posted links to his old videos showing this in action http://forums.silverstackers.com/message-403891.html#p403891
