Fake 1938 Crown

Discussion in 'Fakes & Counterfeits' started by pennys, Feb 7, 2020.

  1. pennys

    pennys Member

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    Purchased a 1938 crown off Ebay. Expected a fake and it was fake. It's a copper/tin alloy. Nonmagnetic. 26.790g. Correct diameter. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/193334210068

    He also sells 1934 florins and he is is not alone. Most of these coins receive positive buyer feedback.

    What is the best way of dealing with these guys? Is the crown still technically legal tender?
     

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  2. slavaja

    slavaja Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    He surely has a lot of 1938 crowns. He had sold 10+ for $80 and they all look the same in the picture.
     
  3. GoldenEye

    GoldenEye Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I believe it’s still legal tender, so selling them would be a serious federal offence.
     
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  4. madaw1

    madaw1 Well-Known Member

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    Very distressing that Ebay doesn't care- I know from similar experience... :eek:
     
  5. openeyes

    openeyes Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    The username of mellonscum does certainly fit
     
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  6. openeyes

    openeyes Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    If you paid through Paypal make a claim. They are pretty aggressive about this and will get your money back
     
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  7. Oddjob

    Oddjob Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Good point. Maybe worth referring old mate and his ebay pages to the AFP.
     
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  8. JOHNLGALT

    JOHNLGALT Well-Known Member

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    Hope I'm not off-topic here, but, that is why I always purchase Precious Metals from my LCS on the 6th Floor of the building @ the Cnr. Swanston & Collins st. Melb. (even if it takes 2 hours to get there),

    Michael & Joe & the other bloke, that PLUG is worth a special DISCOUNT. (maybe SPOT on all sales to you, LOL). _JOHNLGALT, (not my real name).
     
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  9. Freaksta

    Freaksta Member

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    OT: why do people type in various font sizes and colours?
     
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  10. mongrelmaple

    mongrelmaple Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    They gone slightly insane from watching non stop silver pumping videos for years while the price hasn’t done all that much

    I’d lose my mind as well ;)
     
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  11. Number 47

    Number 47 Well-Known Member

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    Each colour and font should be read with a different tone, accent, pitch, noise level or speed depending on font colour, size ecc.... then it makes for some fun reading.
     
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  12. Oddjob

    Oddjob Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Go with the flow and enjoy the ride.;)
     
  13. pennys

    pennys Member

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    I'll get my money back with PP. I purchased to 2 reasons. 1, to document. 2, to possibly send to AFP since from my reading the crown was not demonetised. Btw, I made a mistake. Coin is actually nickel silver (0% Ag). If the dies were better quality I think it would trick most people. Certainly is being sold by people who should know better https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/153814438291

    Chinese specialize in striking Crowns/Morgans/Peace dollars from real silver. The US actually gifted Morgan presses to China in the 1920s. How is a bullion dealer useful in these cases?
     
  14. pennys

    pennys Member

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    He has sold at least 49 1934-Florins for $7525. He has sold at least 194 1938-Crowns for $18635. 94% of buyers left positive feedback for these coins.

    The seller who sold a counterfeit coin to me is coin collector Steve Forster residing in south Bendigo. He sells using 3 Ebay accounts and Paypal that are not registered in his name: mellonscum, nilocffossip, and as-76543. He has periodically bought his own items from other accounts which may indicate use of shill bidding. He was selling the odd 1930 Penny but now sells almost exclusively 1934-35 Centenary Florins and 1938 Crowns. The counterfeit coin I received contained no silver. It was sold in the Australian pre-decimal coin section of Ebay with no mention of it being a copy, replica, medallion or token. The coin I received was not the same as the (genuine) coin shown in photos. And by law the Crown is legal tender as at 2020.
     
  15. slavaja

    slavaja Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I just made a offer of $1 for his current listing
     
  16. JOHNLGALT

    JOHNLGALT Well-Known Member

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    "How is a bullion dealer useful in these cases?".

    O.K. I'll tell you how, you are an IDIOT for buying Precious Metals on EBay.

    Get the picture [email protected]$$?
     
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  17. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Excellent work, time to report your findings to the AFP.
     
  18. kilo

    kilo Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Thanks for the insight

     
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  19. pennys

    pennys Member

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    It makes very little difference. Virtually everyone selling coins and metals is a cowboy or failed used car salesman. Don't trust, verify.

    Your faith is perhaps misplaced in Bullion Now. On Youtube, they bang on about XRF and checking the height of coins and bars. Also on Youtube, how the Chinese learned to fake XRF and density years ago e.g. American Eagles
     
  20. milled

    milled Active Member

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    No point buying ASEs from anywhere but the USA or a dealer in Australia with competitive premiums

    You can buy monster boxes by the pallet from APMEX if you wanted. There is no GST as it is investment grade and all in, from what I've seen, it is marginally cheaper to directly import from US if you buy bulk.

    Either way, there is no reason to buy from ebay. It is a chore sifting through what's there anyway. Most of it is ludicrously overpriced or dodgy af. The fact that people are buying 1938 crowns for $80 tells you there is a sucker born every minute. Caveat emptor.

    XRF is helpful. I've noticed some dealers will make a very fine nick in the rim of a bullion item and scan that. Chinese electroplate PMs on the base metals quite thinly in most cases and this ruse would be defeated by that technique.

    Regardless, much much better to buy here than ebay or gumtree. You are most likely not trading with a crackhead trying to pay for their next fix, almost always get a better deal and you can quickly determine safe trading partners.

    It's not safe at flea markets either. I remember one dealer with a Foy bag for sale in regional Queensland for $120. On closer inspection, the lettering was clearly in dot matrix, the colour of the bag wrong, even the wrinkles were fake, what looked like printed on wrinkles!. The most damning thing was the curvature of the flap, nothing like the genuine article. It clearly was a modern bag. When I pointed this out, the guy asked me what I would like to pay for it. So dodgy!!! Someone with integrity would take it off the market right away.

    Imagine repeatedly selling fake 1938s here...you'd be run out of town. I have to say I did buy some 1937s here years ago and the way they were packaged didn't sit that well with me and some don't weigh that well.

    On the other hand, I bought a bunch of sovs a long time ago, with some crowns and the stacker I was dealing with had weighed all the crowns and determined a small number were duds, told me and threw them in for free.

    Best to go for the less faked items. I don't buy crowns anymore for this reason and the premium for basically a bullion item in the case of the 1937. First 1938 I bought a decade ago had a massive gouge out of the rim which was only apparent when you took the coin out of its protective holder. This was from a note and coin shop no less. Dealer had graded it VF when even a lay person can see the giant dent in the rim makes it basically bullion.

    Sorry you learned the lesson the hard way pennys. (Most of us have probably been there sometime). Even though Galt is quite brusque in delivery, I think ebay is not worth it either.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
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