EV road user's tax

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by mmm....shiney!, Nov 16, 2020.

  1. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    In the absence of raising revenue via the fuel levy, SA and NSW are considering introducing a distance-based tax on EV owners.

    Of course this implies that EV owners report mileage to the State. Lovely.

    snip

    https://stockhead.com.au/energy/ev-...tralia leads world in punishing Tesla drivers
     
  2. spannermonkey

    spannermonkey Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    As a fossil
    I'm going to keep on burning fossil fuel :eek:
    And I will never own an " electric ride on dildo " as I call them :p
    Tesla owner should pay another kind of tax .
    By emptying their wallet onto the ground every time they get into the" electric ride on dildo ":p
     
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  3. Oddjob

    Oddjob Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    It'll all start out with the pollies saying they are trying to be fair to those with internal combustion engines who pay fuel tax v the EV cars that don't, then the green lobby will scream blue murder, the pollies will fold like a cheap camping chair and decide to tax all vehicles (petrol, diesel and EV) with a distance tax cos that what they really want......they just gotta find partially justifiable way to ram it through.
     
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  4. jultorsk

    jultorsk Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Implies some sort of automated (GPS-based) tracking, imo. All Teslas would be equipped with one anyways. Then when the system is up and running it will be gradually rolled out to all vehicles.
    Because of course "climate" is more important than your privacy.

    Just means I won't be upgrading my pre-2000 vehicle any time soon...
     
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  5. sgbuyer

    sgbuyer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Just wondering, how will people living in apartments charge their Tesers? Me wife has trouble remembering to charge even her phone, sometimes the lightening cable doesn't connect.
     
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  6. jultorsk

    jultorsk Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Wouldn't be readily feasible in practise. There aren't thick enough cables to allow everyone in an big apartment building to charge when everyone is at home (evenings/nights). The bill to build the required infrastructure would be astronomical. Plus - the infra cost would be of course shared with everyone in that apartment building, including those who do not have EV's. Congratulations, you're contributing to saving the world.
     
  7. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    In densely populated cities hydrogen vehicles will takeover. Refuelling will be like any petrol or diesel cars, 5 minutes at a pump and go.

    There are other industries that won't be moving to batteries anytime soon like aviation or shipping.

    As for cost of hydrogen, with increased demand, supply is gearing up and price of production is coming down.

    Much like petrol, LPG and diesel powered cars on the road today it is likely they will be combination of battery, biofuel and hydrogen powered cars on the road well into the future.

    Also hydrogen isn't a new technology, there are protocols in place for storing and distribution, lastly we already transport hydrogen in bulk carriers all over the world.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
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  8. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Also there are two main types of Hydrogen.... Green and Green "Lite".

    Green Hydrogen is made using Solar/Thermal/Hydro with H2O as feedstock -> This is the future where green powerplant is built for electrolysis or in a country where there is excess "green" power. ie California electritcity board pays Nevada to take solar power. Also it is not unheard of Australian Peak prices dropping to near zero on sunny days.

    Green "lite" is made from Natural/LPG/Syngas gas feedstock or by using electrolysis but powered by carbon enegery.

    Pretty soon within a decade or so countries blessed with Solar/Thermal/Wind/Hydro (or nuclear) could become hydrogen/energy exporters.
     
  9. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    = blue hydrogen.

    https://thundersaidenergy.com/2020/08/21/the-green-hydrogen-economy-a-summary/

    Blue looks a more viable option than green in delivering energy requirements at the same time as lowering emissions, but greenies just won't be able to get their head around using fossil fuels to reduce CO2 emissions - so governments (read ESPECIALLY Biden's) are likely to subsidise green hydrogen at the expense of blue and consumers.

    SCOMO's "all energy options being considered" approach is the rational move.
     
  10. JohnnyBravo300

    JohnnyBravo300 Well-Known Member

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    I love my cheap old high mileage Subarus. Cant beat the all wheel drive for Colorado winters and when they finally die I'll replace them with more just like them.
    At a dime a dozen they are just my price range.
     
  11. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I dont think what "greenies" want be it Green or Blue Hydrogen matter at this stage.... Because without investment in delivery infastruture which is decades long process be it pumping stations, supply and R&D it is a pipe dream.

    The old adage what comes first the chicken or the egg doesnt really matter at the moment.... eventually it will but pumping station owners has little to do with Blue or Green Hydrogen, since both are Hydrogen, and without pumping station there is no hydrogen economy.

    For example I wouldnt buy a hydrogen car in city with handful of pumping stations.... there will have to be close to a hundred hydrogen pumping station in a city the size of Sydney ...... Station owners wont invest in Hyrdrogen pumps if no one is driving Hydrogen cars...... Car makers wont mass produce Hydrogen cars if there are limited pumping station, these are the real road blocks at the moment for Hydrogen cars

    So if you look at countries like South Korea which has a Hyrdogen Road map, the government is funding the initial set up of pump nozzle standards, subsidising station owners to implement Hydrogen pumps, building pipelines and lowering taxes on Fossil gases that are used to make Hydrogen to increase/encourage supply and giving tax credits for manufacters of cars and Hydrogen refinerys for RD to go green with billions of dollars.
     
  12. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Western governments will go where the votes go. Biden and greenies in the US want to move away from fossil fuels so that's where he'll push the stimulus packages. If Labor gets in next time the same thing will happen here.
     
  13. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Even without global warming debate/cost/pollution concerns within the next 50 years fossil fuel will be too expensive, even if taxes on oil was lowered to zero. Therefore moving on from fossil fuel is a given, I doubt even the most pro oil executives from Exxon/Shell/BP will argue that the end of fossil fuel as a cheap power source is but a few decades away, well before we run out of oil.

    Therefore be it Biden, Trump, Shorten, Morris, Boris or Moon, trillions of public and private money will be spent around the globe on alternate energy infastructure, research, subsidy and development, if not now than tommorrow, not becuase it is green but we have too.

    For example say someone invents a simple clean process to suck out CO2 and NO2 out of atmosphere for minimal cost and the global warming is no longer a concern, what I wrote above still comes into play within a handful decades.
     
  14. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Where the government directs money will precisely be determined by what is considered green in the minds of the most vocal lobbyists living in luxury in concrete jungles and fuck the rest of the world. Good science won't determine where the government splashes its cash. Biden has already made it clear that he is not a supporter of fossil fuels, as such, the energy transition in the US will be more expensive than it could ordinarily be and we're likely to condemn over 1billion worldwide to live without access to electricity and over 3 billion without access to clean fuel for cooking!

    There are alternatives to every form of power generation available. They all vary in cost, they all vary in the manner in which they most effectively and efficiently lesson carbon emissions, but most importantly they vary in the source of power and the manner in which that power is stored and distributed. And it's the source that has been hijacked and politicised for the benefit of some.

    Gas (combined with technologies to offset CO2) is the most cost effective and efficient way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions without threatening our growing, future power needs. If the provision of gas/oil does get more expensive it'll simply be because our national governments have decided to be kingmakers and reward battery makers, wind farm operators or solar panel producers - and yes green hydrogen producers at the expense of the oil and gas industry and most importantly the consumer.

    More info here: https://thundersaidenergy.com/tse-insights/

    End of rant.

    Edit to add: I hate fkn greenies. :p
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
  15. sgbuyer

    sgbuyer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I’m quite sure renewables will eventually be the future, maybe 15-20 years time, otherwise why will I buy silver and platinum? The problem is that the massive infrastructure spending required assumes that interest rates and capital will be cheap and there not be inflation that drives up the cost of the nickel, cobalt, platinum, silver and rare earths. We all know this isn’t true so it’s just pipe dream.
     

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