Hi Guys, I am looking to hear from the people of the silverstackers forum who are currently using e-superfund for their SMSF. Could you please shed some light on your experience with them and buying precious metals in your SMSF. I would really appreciate hearing from anyone who is personally using them. Warm regards and thanks guys. GenYTrader.
Hello genY, there are quite a few using esuperfund on this forum. A search through the superannuation sub-forum will answer many questions. Here's the longest thread there: http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-1917-smsf-s.html I have been purchasing gold and silver as well as numis through my SMSF, but haven't gone through any auditing yet, as we've only been operating it for a couple of months. Haven't had any dramas yet and the rollover from my wife's old super fund was quick and painless. Consultants can be a bit difficult to contact at esuperfund as the girls that answer the phones are receptionists and you have to talk to a consultant for advice, it can take a couple of hours before they get back to you and if you miss their phone call - you have to go through the same process again. Just make sure you have lots and lots of certified copies of identification and the trust deed once everything is set up because you have to prove who you are to every dealer you may buy large purchases from. I've worn a set of tyres out going back and forth from the photocopy shop to the courthouse.
Definately agree with the above... As for purchasing PM's under my SMSF - seems to be allowed currently but was warned by eSuper this might change in the future. Got a second opinion from my own Accountant who suggested not to hold personal and fund physical together. Ended up on the Perth Mint unallocated program. Unfortunatelly this isn't available anymore. eSpuer are currently getting my audit together - first year - the required input from me has been little to none - transaction history through the account provides majority of info. I think the service and product is fair priced.
I set one up a few months ago and have never felt the need to contact them. Easy set up, no problems. Don't use it to buy gold and silver to store at home. Prefer the PMDS account through Perth Mint. Their Pool Allocated for silver is basically the same as their old Unallocated Silver, its just stored in 1000oz bars instead of working stock. I would highly recommend the eSuperfund SMSF.
Applications for new accounts are free until tomorrow. http://www.esuperfund.com.au/fees/freesmsfsetup.aspx Can't see any hidden fees? I might have to jump at this!
I'll have to examine my current super fees to see if I'll be ahead or not. So basically there is a minimum cost of $699, payable in second year of fund or earlier if you terminate.
Thats still a cracking deal if its free application - hello SMSF. Been waiting for an offer like that, now time to invest in gold numis!
Thanks for all the info guys....It looks like I will move ahead with E-Super and get myself some cold hard bars into my Super Fund! Exciting times...!!!
Purely off the top of my head, but, a lot of advice given is over cautious so as not to invoke suspicion. Nothing wrong with holding bullion in your house, so far, AFAIK, but I'm no expert. It's like driving on the highway, the speed limit is 100 kmh, so let's do 97 kmh so the cops don't worry about us.
Really agree and with Shinneys comment's - there is no RULE to say you can't - the advise I was given was storage account, and so thought to mention it here. Just thinking out aloud - what about proof of ownership during the audit? ie how can eSuper/gov confirm the bullion is still in your reach? Hey go to town! at least you will have a door weight when many will just get empty promises when retiring...
Sorry to burst your thought bubble Ag but... With regard to storing gold bullion there is a problem. Under section 62A investment by a self managed super fund "in assets that lend themselves to personal use or enjoyment by trustees or their associates". A hard nosed ATO auditor that wants to make an example of you could argue that gold bullion could be deemed if not collectable then a personal use asset as defined under the Income Tax Assessment act 1997 (ITAA 1997) which are assets used or kept mainly for the personal use or enjoyment of the trustee := nonrecourse
Good pickup nonrecourse...so my unallocated account at Perth might clear me but could hold a problem for others? Maybe this is why my accountant suggested against? Never listen close enough to his details I pay him for advise not a lecture!
I think they would be very hard pressed to argue that straightforward gold bullion is a "personal use asset" - that to me indicates assets like artworks, numismatics or cars. Would cause a bit of an uproar in investment circles.
Hi Gold Pelican; What your saying is common sense but your not dealing with individuals in the ATO who administer SMSF's that have any. We have been to hell and back with our SMSF that controls a Trevisan Unit Trust and have never done anything illegal. If you store gold bullion at home that your SMSF has title to is no different than storing cash. But think about it, why would you store cash at home? The SIS act has increasingly got tough on the interpretation that the sole purpose is for your retirement and a prudent Trustee wouldn't store cash at home.I don't know about you but we do get enjoyment from touching our bullion As for causing an uproar in investment circles the truth is the ATO views all SMSF's as tax evaders. They are right its a great tax lurk and its legal much to treasuries disgust The idea that the government really wants people to be financially independent is nonsense. Why would they discourage people from putting more money into super by dropping the concessional amount, winding back the co-contribution and if you make a mistake and put too much into concessional and non consessional tax away up to 97% of it !!!!! The reason we got into our own SMSF was because we could see that the retail and industry funds would bleed us dry by pushing us into the stock market. We invested our super first in commercial real estate and now the income from those assets is going into bullion. We have never trusted the share market or our government and like many on this site we can see where the fiat money is headed for. The more successful you are in managing your SMSF and attaining a return that makes you financially independent the more scrutiny you can anticipate from the ATO, so that is where we are coming from. nonrecourse
Hello again gold Pelican; I refer you to an excellent article in the financial review July 16-17 2011 page 28 under Smart Money DIY super by John Wasiliev quoting Alan Dixon of D.I.Y super advisor " says gold bullions absence from the list would suggest it wasn't covered by the collectable rules. That said where a D.I.Y fund invested in gold bullion he'd expect the trustees to apply a high standard of investment management that wouldn't be any less than the new requirements that apply to art works and collectables". Kind regards nonrecourse
Hi Ag; Your unallocated account is safe as far as complying with the SIS regulations however not being trusting of big business or government is the reason we always take delivery and store it in a bank safety deposit box. The article I referred to in my response to Gold Pelican mentions gold securities. I wouldn't touch them as to us they are just another form of fiat money. Same applies to e-superfund. People are attracted to the low fee's but how secure is your data? I got it from a good source that a lot of these inexpensive SMSF super clearing houses are using India to crutch the numbers and with the criminal IT hackers working overtime this little piggy likes to keep our stash close to our chests. There is a software group called BGL that provides a program called Simple Fund (they service 70% of all SMSF's in Australia) that you can do all your SMSF financials and Tax returns. The cost of the software is $660 which includes a half day of training. It then costs another $375 a year to keep using the software. If you are not an accountant you cannot use the software to lodge electronically but you can just copy it across and make a paper lodgement. You would still need to have your fund audited but again at tops if your organized $250-$400. Why would you bother doing this? We are not accountants but our evolving financial education journey has led us down this path because most of the accounting and financial advice handed out to mum & dad investors is/was toxic. The Australian SMSF trust structure is the best in the world, no other country has anything like this and that is why the retail and industry funds are constantly lobbying to undermine it. I submitted a 35 page submission to the Cooper Superannuation review last year. I questioned why D.I.Y. funds must pay out a death benefit that is taxed when allocated to adult children rather than being allowed to roll it over into a reserve account that could be used by families to pay benefits for the remaining beneficiaries when they retire and ensure that fewer people would need to draw on the government pension. That would mean there was more money for those not as fortunate. The big insurance/retail/industry funds are allowed to build up reserves from unallocated funds and thereby ensure ongoing solvency but not SMSF's and these same big funds lobbied the government back in 2005 to exclude SMSF's from paying a defined benefit pension. Kind Regards nonrecourse
Nonrecourse, Thanks for your lengthy response! I did feel uneasy about this but looked through some background,meaning metal backing and underwriters. Seems Perth Mint is backed by WA Government who is further backed by Lloyd's of London. The contract is for physical metal where I have 'prepaid' 50% of the fabrication charge and would need to pay the remaining difference depending on the selected physical format. My retirement is approx 30 years time so expect the spot to be better than my purchase price. If the spot is $5/oz at that stage will take delivery - if the spot is $500 or greater per oz will take the fiat. The 'unallocated' account allowed 'free' storage for the metal - basically that cost per year times 30 would start to eat up into the profits so opted for this option. If they decided to later charge a fee, would take physical immediately. Yes a risk but being retirement based investment expect the government to honer there commitment - I guess I will let you know the outcome in 30 odd years time
