Diamonds As An Investment - "No"

Discussion in 'Jewellery & Gems' started by Holdfast, Sep 16, 2014.

  1. Holdfast

    Holdfast Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    There's been a few posts saying that diamonds are a good investment. :|

    It would seem that technology is your enemy for the long-term, anyway, there's some very interesting videos indicating why you'll really need to understand the "Diamond-Market".

    Please view this video if you "had" thoughts on buying a diamond.

    The video shows the production of Yellow and Clear "synthetic" stones and the improvement in technology. (39:47 onwards)

    Small diamonds are generally not tested to indicate their authenticity. (45:30 - 45:52)

    If you don't have time to watch the full video please start the vid at 39 minutes 42 seconds.(Chemical Vapour Deposition)

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y35seGFVqA[/youtube]
     
  2. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I will have to have a watch of that when I get home.

    Back in the day they were saying that to make a diamond took the same amount of energy as running a hairdryer for three days. But then you never really heard much about it after that. I expected them to spring up all over the place, I even had a look to see how much the machine would cost but you can't even get them on eBay. They still aren't cheap though, I guess you pay a lot for the cutting.

    I will watch the show but I am sure that DeBeers was going to laser their logo into every diamond they had so that they could show a real diamond from a lab diamond.
     
  3. Shaddam IV

    Shaddam IV Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Surely the only real investment grade diamonds would be the rare Argyle pink and the blue stones?
     
  4. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    You can make them any colour you like by changing the recipe. Plus the ones you make in the lab are nearly flawless.

    All DeBeers have to do is convince someone that a small natural diamond with faults is better than a large perfect one that has been grown in a lab.

    I think DeBeers was trying to convince people that these were akin to 'fakes', "Would you rather have a plastic flower than the real thing?" to which the synthetic industry answered something along the lines of "Can you tell the diffrerence between a flower picked in the wild or one grown in a greenhouse?"
     
  5. renovator

    renovator Well-Known Member

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    The doco i watched said the artificial diamonds are micro laser ethced .Maybe thats the same video above ...i didnt watch it .
     
  6. 1for1

    1for1 Well-Known Member

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    i like the heavily flawed included ones, as dark or non-white as possible.

    Apparently the prices of coloured and even coffee to black specimens is on the rise.. excellent news

    Getting the flawless crystal coloured one is the marriage fodder $5k later one that guys and women have been marketing-force peer pressured into consuming intergenerationally as a "tradition" based on the greed of De-one family.

    1for1
     
  7. smk762

    smk762 Active Member Silver Stacker

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    If the scientists aren't working with guns to their backs, it's just not the same.
     
  8. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I just came across this old article on diamonds and the history of how they were made valuable. Hollywood stars and careful advertising, a cartel and a fair bit of good old commercial flair.

    The whole article is worth a read.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...ed-to-sell-a-diamond/304575/?single_page=true
     
  9. anonmiss

    anonmiss Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Big write ups in the Australian Jewellery magazine about the systematic over grading of diamonds by the GIA.
    No one knows how many of these over graded diamonds have hit the markets or where they are. Best estimates are that one billion dollars worth of diamonds have been over graded.
    So even a diamond certified by the GIA (the most reputable gem graders in the business) is NOT a good investment.
     
  10. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  11. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Synthetic diamonds aren't cheap, they aren't giving them away in cereal boxes or anything.

    I did wonder why DeBeers didn't jump on the synthetic market straight away and offer DeBeers Branded Synthetics. After all, now that diamonds can be made in a lab, all they have left is their Brand, their reputation in the industry and their desperate posturing.

    If they offered a budget line for people wanting a DeBeers diamond at affordable prices they may find they would sell more of them.

    It just reminds me of the Music industry shutting down Napster, and then the Pirate Bay and then trying to shut down all the torrents and remove YouTubes when they could have jumped in and offered better services for an acceptable price. They got there in the end but the hate they generated for themselves, was that worth it?
     
  12. spannermonkey

    spannermonkey Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Been trying to source a diamond for a friend of a friend with deep pockets for an engagement ring
    This is what my jeweller came back to me with
    BUT first if anybody is interested in anything here ,I haven't marked up the prices & you'll have to give me $3k on top of these prices
    ALL these diamonds are triple excellent & all come with GIA certs & you will have no problems selling them anywhere over sea's & getting your $ back & even maybe making a small profit on them

    2.03 ct E color VS2 $61,300 - Princess cut

    2.17 ct F color VS2 $75,400 - Princess cut

    3.01 F color VS2 $120,000 + GST stone in Sydney - round cut

    3.02 F color VS2 $81,000 - Princess cut

    :D
     
  13. Aurora et luna

    Aurora et luna Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Ouch, i am in the wrong business!
    Compared his prices with those on Rapaport and wholesale on those babies are 1/3 of his asking price.
    Currently the Rapaport wholesale price on a 2.03ct E color VS2 is around $US14,500.
    3.01 F color VS2 brilliant cut around $US31,000
    If you friend is looking for a fair price, best send him up to Sydney to see me and I will save him heaps.
    He can afford to pay you 3k for the referral since he will be saving a fortune.
     
  14. spannermonkey

    spannermonkey Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Do the stones you can get have the most important thing
    THe GIA -USA certs
    Otherwise I want touch them sorry
     
  15. aleks

    aleks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2501480

     
  16. Aurora et luna

    Aurora et luna Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    GIA is the best known diamond certification crowd however their certification is not as rigid as the guys at DCLA (Diamond Certification Laboratory Australia).
    They regularly have to reevaluate over graded GIA stones to the annoyance of their clients who paid top dollar for what they assumed was a quality gem.
     
  17. spannermonkey

    spannermonkey Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    That would be GIA China & India ,which are being wound up shortly for that reason
    No such issues with GIA USA
    DCLA doesn't hold up as well as GIA on a world wide scale
    I have my 2 experts in Melbourne CBD ,one of them is Rick who runs the Jewellery valuers course
    And is president of the Jewellers Valuers Guild
    And they both say the same thing, "nothing wrong " with DCLA ,just GIA trumps them
     
  18. Aurora et luna

    Aurora et luna Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Even if GIA cert. trumps DCLA, that piece of paper doesn't justify paying 3 times the going rate.
     
  19. spannermonkey

    spannermonkey Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    My jeweller just want touch anything else ,I'll rattle his cage on Tuesday & see what he says ;)
     
  20. spannermonkey

    spannermonkey Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    OK just rang my jeweller
    DCLA are gone or just about gone , they were caught out doing dodgey gradings & were either fined or wound down
    The stones I originally quoted are hand picked by gemmologist who are also diamond dealers ,not just diamond delears
    Like Vital in Melbourne
     

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