All though off topic but I will bite anyway. Call it xenophobic and short sighted if you like but I think that it is you thats being short sighted on this issue actually. You seem to think that once large portions of land are sold that the food actually stays here. That is not the case. Countries like Saudi Arabi, Kuwait and China don't come hunting Australian farm land because of profits they are doing it to secure future food production for their own countries at todays prices. Why? Because they are far less short sighted than people like yourself that only care about how much they can get for their land right now. You attempt to conjure a very unrealistic and alarmist picture about locals losing jobs etc etc all the while blaming others on creating enemies. These counties know that food security is going to be one of the biggest concerns in the very near future. Farm land should be kept Australian owned and operated full stop. You say " How unfair is that?" Well try and buy land or any other strategic commodity in these countries and find out how fair it is. We are the ones selling ourselves out now for a quick profit when we could be reaping many many times that sustainably into the future.
as soon as china finds cheaper resources in mongolia, west africa and strikes a number of deals in south america.........................they are OUTTA HERE!!!!......................they are quite rightly trying to get out of the grip of the big three producers in OZ ....(due to extortionist rates)..........once they get those deals sorted................AUSTRALIA WILL BE SCREWED!!!!...i give it till 2015 tops..... edit.....all this talk about ...we are less exposed - we have different policies - we are small and insignificant....blahblah........we are lucky!!!!!....simply we are lucky that WE figured in china's survival plan...........we will not have this protection once china decides to move to better deals....
make hay whilst the sun shines.......we have time on our side...not much time.....just enough so that if you can get debt free - do it.....2015 ...or close to it - thats my punt....
China will buy where it can get the best deal in quality, price and service. Minerals from West Africa and Brazil etc have a very bad handicap in the cost of freight and time of delivery. Australia can exploit her proximity advantage with cheaper freight costs. Wages are a different matter, but we can tender a long way down from where we are at the moment, and our production efficiences should help too. All or most of our mines are quite mature. We shall see.
i agree old codger..............perhaps it may come down to a situation......if they end up doing deals where they have an outlook for 20-30-50 years......they may very well put funds into improving the ports, rail etc networks so that they end up havin gmore control over these variables.....after all - they always look at long term deals ......they dont like the variability and volatility of short term arrangements....... edit.......THEN we are screwed.....
wmm, We have NIL chance of being debt free inside 50 years. We are haeding for $300 billion in Federal debt only, and it can only get worse with this incompetent bunch. OC
Old Codger...I enjoy your posts and I understand your concern about debt taken out by Federal and State Governments. However, surely you don't believe that it is only Labor Governments that borrow money.. In my area just recently, four local Councils were forced to amalgamate because the smaller ones with low populations had borrowed for years to keep miles and miles of country roads in operation..To do this they borrowed to the hilt.. Now we have one council looking after an area with a population of 200,000 and a debt of $60 million. This area is represented by National party members and the council has mainly members of the same ilk. I could pick at random 10 Silver Stacker Members from this site and I doubt we could ever turn around the debt structure of this Council for at the first election we would be out on our ears...The interest on previous borrowings is the downfall of anyone who attempts to reduce the debt by budgetary means..You can sell assets but blind Freddy can do that but in our area I don't think that the Council would raise much. They be all the same I tell you. Even the ones that get in with good intentions are soon faced with the reality of debt.. What a situation faces the people of the USA (Donald Duck or Mickey Mouse). Mighty Mouse is whats needed but would there be an outcry if Ron Paul or someone of his ilk is elected..Oh I forgot RP is a Republican. Every time we have an election in Australia the 2 main political parties out bribe each other to gain votes and to do this they have to put the country into debt to do it. The same goes when a recession is looming, you hold out your hand and here comes the government handing goodies around to secure your vote.. IMHO Australia and its people will suffer long term because of the lack of foresight by all governments (ALP/Liberal) By now we should be well on the way to constructing high speed rail between all our major cities..With the price of fuel going up continually, it may well be that the price of air and car travel will mean the cost of doing so will be beyond the means of ordinary folk. Keep posting, Old Codger, the main issue I don't agree with you is your rant about ALP governments..The are all the same I tell ya. Regards Errol43
i think there isn't a population in any country in the world that isn't going to suffer looking towards the next 20-50 years.
RANT!!!! Waddya mean RANT???? if I was going to have a "rant' against the Australian socialist government you would be reading until the middle of next week! During the time of Australia's BEST PM, John Winston Howard, in case you have forgotten, our NET Federal debt went from $97 BILLION to ZERO!!! AND we had a 'Future Fund' made up mostly of the proceeds of public assets. (mostly in cash at the time of the GFC by the way) Then the socialists got their sticky paws into the purse and turned that around to a current NET debt of about $175 BILLION, last time I counted it. And that does NOT count the current financial year!!!! (About another $52 billion i think it was) AND, you may remember that during the stewardship of JWH ALL of the long suffering states were carrying a socialist government on their broad shoulders. NOW the entire country is up to the gills in red ink, and getting worse! And we have not even added the INSANE idea of the NBN ($36 BILLION, ALL borrowed), into the mix. AND I think you will find that most city Councils are socialist kindergartens for aspiring State and Federal pollies, second only to the UNIONS! Chapter 1 of 'rant' over! OC
"i think there isn't a population in any country in the world that isn't going to suffer looking towards the next 20-50 years.' Without a doubt! OC
Lovely rant there OC totally agree with you on the debt etc. I also agree that little Johnny was our best PM ever also. Although he does have a couple of very very big issues hanging over his government that will come home to roost in the next 5 years if not sooner. Mainly the deregulation of lending requirements in Australia which allowed Australians to rack up record and very very dangerous levels of personal debt and a housing bubble that the ALP blew bigger and bigger. The ALP has made this situation even worse so now we have several very real risks that may all hit at the same time.
Who told countries to go out and spend billions of $ to get the world out of the GFC..Great Britain, Japan, China, USA,Germany, France and Australia were all told that the only way out was to spend their way out. The USA bailed out the banks, Australia gave most people $900 each and I must admit wasted a lot on projects that were in my opinion not of a high priority. But to save the economy of the world, the word went out spend as fast as you can on anything, long as it stimulates the economy. What is the future fund for? Would it be to fund the super retirement fund for Federal Politicians, Public Servants, Judges etc. There is on only one state in Australia that has a fully funded state public servant super fund and that is Qld. All the other states are unfunded..I believe that this was the only thing that old Joe did for Qld that stood the test of time..The Qld Development Investment Corp was set up by his government and continues to this day. In other words all other state governments over many year have been spending beyond their means and when the baby boomers line up for their super, it will have to be paid out of current taxes. It is easy being in government during the boom times but very hard when there is a situation like the present...EG WA and Qld in a mining boom and all the rest suffering because of the high $au and a downturn in Tourism, Retail etc. The biggest problem regarding debt is the amount owed by private citizens, which even Alan Kohler on the news in the last couple of days brought it to our notice. The next 5 years will prove to be testing times for politicians of all ilks as they battle to keep the system going.. Victoria and NSW should be ok now with a change of government..Sell the Murray River, now that would be a good idea. The QDIC could buy it ! They be all the same I tell ya OLd Codger, Please tell me when the GFC is going to end? Stack Silver my friend, for here we are all the same,for on one thing we never have a difference of opinion, and thats silver. Regards Errol 43
L80, "Mainly the deregulation of lending requirements in Australia which allowed Australians to rack up record and very very dangerous levels of personal debt" Not certain I agree with this. The 'APRA' (Australian Prudential Regulation Authority), a JWH initiative, regulated the Banks and the other financial institutions, but I do not think that such things as Credit cards (all UNsecured) and personal loans (often UNsecured) were covered. 'Unsecured' is the main reason that these sort of loans carried such a lousy interest rate, they always have! Even housing loans had guidelines that were basic common sense to any prudent banker. Some 'brokers' were gulity of many sins when it came to lending, but I really doubt that the sins were wide-spread among the Big 4. OC
You forgot to mention how the Labor party arrived at the same time as the GFC and that that changed the game completely compared to the previous 10 years. Also, the NBN is borrowed money but paid by users, not taxes. Don't worry, I'm sure there were naysayers back in the day of the overland telegraph as well, but luckily we forged ahead with it. Same with the power grid and stations, railway lines, the snowy river scheme, all the roads etc. In WA, the Liberals have quadrupled the debt and given us no infrastructure whereas the Labour party gave us a reasonably balanced budget and lots of major infrastructure. Colin Barnett and his cronies are for law and order and miners, ie Serco, BHP, Rio Tinto and Twiggy Forrest, and that's it. At the end of the day, Liberals are for the rich, and screw everyone else.
"In WA, the Liberals have quadrupled the debt " The Libs have only been there 5 minutes! How did they manage to do that, especially a State swimming in money? Do you have a reference? OC
Errol, "Please tell me when the GFC is going to end?" In all honesty I can only guess at a minimum of 10 years, and lord knows the maximum. One of the Peter Schiff type 'gurus' used the term "new dark age". Maybe the fall of the American Empire will duplicate the fall of the Roman Empire, at least in economic and social terms. I am totally pessimistic of the entire world economic system, not just the USA and the EU, though they will probably be the trigger. We are so inter-connected now with the old buzz word of "globalisation" that we will all go down together. OC
Oh really? In even term that the Liberals were in the country was prosperous, and that was everyone, not just the rich. Under the Liberals business prospers at ALL levels, from micro businesses up to large businesses and everyone prospers because of that. Under EVERY Labour government business lost confidence, jobs were cut and the country drifted towards recession (and in Keating's watch he actually put Australia into a recession). It is history and it is fact. As an example, under Labour's new workplace laws the average number of hours that workers are employed dropped by 7 percent as a direct result. Labour is a disaster for the working class every time that they are in power, and this time is no exception as they are driving the economy into a depression due to their corruption and ham fisted fumbling and infighting. they have just wiped out the NT beef industry due to their thuggish clumsy handling of Indonesia, businesses at all levels have lost confidence in the government and are closing down or cutting staff across the board, The NBN is spending a fortune on lawyers to block anyone from getting any information on where the money is going, set top boxes and pink batts and school carpets were colossal failures that we will be paying for for a decade, and some paid for with their lives. They attacked the mining industry in a country that depends completely on this industry, but didn't dare try and touch the super profits of the banks, because the banks tell Labour what to do, not the other way around. Gillard has been shown to be utterly dishonest and her popularity as a leader is the lowest in the history of Australia, because even Labour supporters can't stomach her dishonesty. Gillard is Brown's little poodle, she has no spine. Labour is a six letter word for recession. Labour is not "for the rich"? You are joking, aren't you? The levels of corruption in that party around property developers is legendary. Labour MP's go overseas and sell out Australia's secrets to foreign powers, hobnobbing with the rich indeed. the Libs aren't "for the rich", they are "for business". Two very different things. I don't particularly like the Liberal Party, but Labour is a reptile pit, it is amusing seeing lizards like Rudd and J'Liar slashing pieces out of each other. The only tools Labour has is a hammer called taxation, and a crowbar called regulations.
Labor and Liberal is the reptilian pit. Throw in the Republicans and democrats as well. Regards Errol43
