Hi there, Is there any online (or offline) dealers that have their price set by live rate (+ their margin obviously)? Bullionmark is the one that I have found that appears to be close but their "live rate" is curiously very odd as follows: Live Silver USD price Bullionmark = $28.79 USD - Actual live rate = $28.32 USD Live Silver AUD price Bullionmark = $29.40 AUD - Actual live rate = $28.94 AUD Not sure if such a place exists but just throwing it out there as I wouldn't mind purchasing 20oz's or so during this dip and the private sales have seemingly dried up during it. Thanks.
I don't know why this keeps coming up. It is pointless to try to get 'live rate.' If you want exposure purely on the price of silver , then buy the silver ETF (ASX:ETPMAG) as it tracks the live rate very closely. Buying physical items is a different market, there is always going to be costs for fabrication, transport, administration, convenience, dealer overheads. The Perth Mint sell price different from the Bullionmark sell which is different from the Adelaide Exchange sell price which is different from the goldprice.org chart. All dealers have different rates and differing premiums for each type of product that changes all the time. For example one day Bullionmark might be cheaper than Bullionbourse on 1kg bars but Bullionbourse cheaper on 1oz coins, the next day it might be the other way around. This is a fact of life. I would not worry about looking at the quoted spot price, rather hunt around for the cheapest price you can find in the size you are after. For example if you are after 1kg bars, look at the price of 1kg bars - not the "spot" price on their websites. There is a dealer on this forum named Aurora et Luna who will beat the shipped prices of any Australian dealer or bullion website. So shop around for the best price and then email Aurora et Luna for a quote, this likely will get you the best possible price on any given day.
I think you were a bit harsh on your first point as I already understood there were many factors and even mentioned this inside my comment (their margin). I was more querying why the live spot listed on their site was differing substantially from the actual spot which you answered much more clearly in your second sentence. I perfectly understand that you will never buy silver at the 'spot price' but I was looking for a store which <b>based</b> their price on the live price. I think in future you should either delete your first paragraph or re-read it as you certainly cooled your jets the longer you continued to type.
You will often find that the quote on dealer websites is conveniently off to the high side. I have caught Apmex and Gainesville doing this on a continuous basis. Some even claim their quotes are on a delayed basis, but when pms rise quickly, so do the quotes.
You'll have to enlighten me as to why your quoted prices from BM are curiously odd. I'd say all dealers *base* their prices on the live spot price - it's just a matter of how often they take a sample of the live price and update theirs accordingly. I seriously doubt you will find anyone who changes their price minute by minute - actually sounds a bit silly when i say it like that (but that's how i'm understanding your question) - there'd be no time to actually sell In the short time i've been reading these forums i've seen questions similar to this a few times.
The prices I quoted are what BM had listed as the "Live" Spot price on their ticker on the top right. It's not what they are actually charging at all, I think if it was we would be all over it.
Mine?? It was when i made my first silver buy - just after spot jumped over $20 and stayed over Ah, then, no you won't find anyone that displays the exact current spot price - not that it really matters
True Peekay true. If the dealers are going to label something live "spot price" then it should be exactly that. If their defacto spot price is going to include overheads, profit margins etc then by definition it cant be the "spot price" and they should call it something else like "current selling price" or whatever. If you want physical silver however, from a dealer, you dont pay spot. Usually you are looking at 10% or so more than spot, but sometimes you can get it closer to 5%. And if you want to sell back to a dealer then there's a further 5-10% you lose. Long as the short of it, the buy/sell spreads on silver from a bullion dealer are much higher than gold for example. I can only think because of the physical amount of silver that must be stored, there are higher costs. If you want to play the spot price as closely as possible then paper silver is the go, but this is in the name of silver only, you dont actually receive anything tangible, like shiny metal
A spot price is just that, it is the price that someone will deliver the goods to you "on the spot." The price discovery that gives you the pretty chart and 'live rate' is your standard bid/ask market mechanism that happens on computers in London and New York. It is not a spot price because they are not spot markets, they are futures markets. It is impossible for that market to dictate to you the price that some Australian dealer's sell price will be. It is not some magical 'recommended retail price.' Bullionmark and other dealers are actually MAKING spot markets here in Australia. We are in a spot market...and we get a spot price. It is like going to the green grocer and saying "hmm you say here oranges are $1.50 per kg but on the agricultural fruit loops exchange they are curently trading for $1000 per tonne, do you know anywhere I can buy oranges at the live rate?" Edit: I realise that the individual product prices also deviate from the BM live spot on their website but I think that the BM and Perth Mint spots are a good attempt at trying to give a realistic physical spot price in Australia. I think there are general misunderstandings of what a market is and what a spot price is. We often tend to think of ourselves as seperate outsiders to a market when in fact we are all part of it.
The original poster was questioning why Bullionmark's "live" pricing is weighted towards a higher price that [spot] + [margin] (I don't know myself) but the Perth Mint updates their pricing every 2 minutes or so and the changes are reflected across their entire range of bullion products. Of course, the Perth Mint's entire range of bullion products is usually more expensive than anyone else's but their pricing is about as "live" as it gets.
AFAIK Bullionmarks prices change consistently throughout the day as the SPOT price moves. If i check the price of a 1kg bar now it will be different in 5 or 10 minutes. The SPOT price they quote on the website might not be 100% accurate, but from what i can see their prices are definately "live".
Looks like I need to write an article (which will have to be long) on "spot" and the issues involved in dealers setting their prices. In the meantime, anyone wanting to understand the issues will find these useful: http://goldchat.blogspot.com/2008/06/investment-timeframes-part-ii.html http://goldchat.blogspot.com/2008/07/gold-value-chain-part-iv-trading-prices.html http://goldchat.blogspot.com/2008/07/gold-value-chain-part-v-trading-loco.html
Its like going to one of the banks and asking if they can loan out money at the RBA rate ?? SPOT prices are paper prices for contracts of 5000 oz and if you are only buying a 10 oz bar, you cant expect to be able to get it at spot. The only time when ud be able to get the bar of 10oz for less than spot from a dealer is if the dealer hoarded the oz from way long ago when it cost them less to acquire it, or if everyone started to sell in anticipation of large falls in the price of silver.
You either set you own spot price like banks with foreign exchange rate or use the real spot price and you premium to it like $2,$4, $6 or whatever dollars you like. Some dealers even the Perth Mint do both. This is the issue here nothing else. So for example if I say my selling price is $5 over spot that is really $5 over spot, because I use kitco price for spot and not kitco price + 30-50c as spot like others.
Just to confirm that all BULLIONMARK spot prices are live. All our product prices are also live based on spot plus mint and dealer margin added. Our spot prices are refreshed every 1 minute on the in the My Vault live chart centre https://www.bullionmark.com.au/my-vault/live-metal-chart.html You will need to log in to see the live charts but I can confirm they update automatically. They actuallly change as you watch, so no need to refresh. The spot prices in the top right header of our site are also live but require a manual page to be refreshed to update. So I think the variation shown to Kitco spot prices was due to non refresh or a cached version of that page.
