Hi I am a new member with limited experiece as a collector, so we may be going over old ground here. Recently I purchased this proof coin with certificate from one of our respected members. The coin was well presented with screw type capsule. I have been advised the mark on the Liz's cheek is a copper spot, which is not uncommom to occur on gold coins. Could I have some feed back from you experts out there..... Do you reckon it's a copper spot? Whats the best way to treat the spot?.......... (need to remove for both Liz and my sake). Hope the uploaded photos are included, I've got my doubts!! Thanks
being a proof I would avoid contact with anything other than liquids. Try soaking in bicarb and boiling water fr a while and then rinse with demineralised water and alow to dry naturally. Other than that I would ask were you advised of the spot prior to purchase?
I think the spot is most likely due to the 0.1% copper in the coin. Not sure how/if it can be cleaned though.
Thanks hiho The seller did not notice the spot, therfore no advise. I have been in contact with the seller who has offered some supporting info if required. At this stage I am not bagging the seller as long as it is cosmetic and can be cured. Thanks again
Here is a good article I found on it . . . . http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/redspotsongoldcoins.html FYI - I have never tried this myself so please don't take this as my saying it will work, it is just an interesting read and a possible solution. Attempt at your own risk!
From a website I just found .. but highly recomment DYODD, especially as a proof coin. Is There A Cure For Red Spot? Yes, red spot can be removed from coins. We do not recommend the collector or amateur to try this for themselves at home, at least not without taking a few precautions. If in any doubt, do not try. We disclaim any responsibility for accidents or other problems which may arise. Method Wear protective goggles, and work in a well ventilated space, with a supply of cold water. Ensure there is a handy supply of sodium bicarbonate (bicarbonate of soda). Place the coin in a shallow glass dish or saucer. Carefully pour some concentrated strong acid (nitric is probably best) onto the coin. Do not drop the coin into the acid. Ensure the coin is immersed in the acid, and leave it for some time, depending on ambient temperature, the strength of the acid, and the alloy. If you left the coin with the spotted side up, you should be able to see when the spotting has disappeared. The spots will usually disappear within an hour or two, but the coin will not normally come to any harm if left in the acid for a few days. If you leave coin in the acid, ensure that nobody else will accidentally find it and attempt to move or handle it. A locked poison cupboard or fume cupboard would be a sensible precaution. When you think the red spots have disappeared, neutralise the acid by adding sodium bicarbonate either in powder or in solution very carefully. The care is needed to avoid splashing any of the acid. Normal advice is to add acid to solution for safety reasons, but this will risk your coin dropping and causing splashing. Be sure to add more than enough sodium bicarbonate, you will know when the acid is neutralised because the effervescence (fizzing) will stop. Before handling the coin, ensure that any acid on its underside had been neutralised. It will then be safe to dispose of the remaining liquid. If you splash any acid, use plenty of the sodium bicarbonate to neutralise the spill. Rinse and dry the coin carefully. When drying, avoid rubbing the coin, it should be dabbed dry, or blown dry using an air or steam blower. Drying the coin evenly without leaving any trace is probably the most difficult part of this whole process.
... pity I didnt see your reply beforehand Ry. Nevertheless better to get good advice twice than nought I expect.
Thanks AM and Ry Sound like your all convinced it is a copper spot. Bit scary .using acid, hope it doesn't fiz away to 1/4oz. I might do a little experiment on some old jewellery which is due for a meltdown anyway. I try it on the weekend, will let you know the result. Thanks
Nttg, for sure - Let us know how it turns out, and post pictures too if possible so we can see how it worked, that is if you try it!
To me I would send it back. If I wasn't advised that there is a big red spot on her cheek. IN saying that if you paid bullion price it is probably OK, if on the other hand you have paid Proof prices then I would have an issue.
an article from NGC coin grading http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?NewsletterNewsArticleID=572 another article recommending against using acid http://www.coinmine.com/WhatYouShouldKnowAboutCoins/Composition/CoinChemistryandCleaning.htm Although it might look better after initial treatment, the damage could show up later, thus genuinely damaging the coin's value. I just hope that you don't try and sell it immediately after cleaning it, if the acid job appears to have worked. I'd hate to be a buyer of such a coin, witnessing damage gradually becoming evident shortly after buying it from someone. I'd much prefer a copper spot - the experts agree (eg. taxgold.uk, NGC) that it doesn't necessarily detract from the coin.
0Even though they are proofs, these nuggets don't usually go for more than bullion value anyway. I know dealers that melt them. If you didn't pay much more than bullion price for it I wouldn't be worried about it. Certainly not worth mucking around with dangerous chemicals to try to clean it ! At least the spot is on the ugly side of the coin (the queen's face) .
Poo jokes aside, don't attempt to bloody repair or fix. Fk me, you will only make it worse with pits. It's Copper. It's normal. If you are that bothered by it, the ever so slightest 24kt gold leaf foil, but that is me coming up with a spontaneous solution involving no other foreign WTFs on the surface. Paint the tiny spec of leaf on just to cover the size of spot. Use the softest brush you can get. Test on a gold sample and inspect under 10x microscope (or use them dorky cheapy does-the-job jeweller loupes or glasses). Fix gold with gold. Fix silver with silver. USE AT OWN RISK. KEEP ME UPDATE OF FAILURES. THANKS. .
The only way to dissolve gold is Aqua Regia (water of kings), which is a solution of combined nitric and hydrochloric acid. Gold will not dissolve in pure nitric acid alone. That's why nitric acid is used for the "acid test". And even if you dissolved some gold in aqua regia, there are ways to reclaim it from there. Read up on some alchemy - they never discovered how to turn lead into gold, but they did figure out some interesting stuff!
Thanks for all the feedback. I chickened out on the weekend........ Decided to think of the mark as a beauty spot rather than a blemish. Until I have more confidence in the repair method and result I will leave as is. Nugget side up.....
I like your decision. I have a lovely 10oz silver bar with some tarnishing. Thought about cleaning it but was talked out of it. Since then I have come to love that particular bar for its design and the tarnish. I thank 1for1 and spannermonkey for talking me out of it
for the geeks amoungst you aqua rega is the only acid that reacts with gold. It is not the acid that reacts with the gold but rather the no2+ ion that oxidises gold (not a classical acid metal reaction) the sulphuric acid is only used to reduce HNO3 (nitric acid) to NO2+. to recover gold from gold nitrate solution all you need is an electrical current and a gold cathode. if you want me to show you how just pop to my school.
