Panda fans, your advice please ... I recently some purchased some NGC graded pandas from a fellow SS member. The slabbed coins were sent via Express Post Platinum, well wrapped in bubble wrap. Unfortunately, two of the slabs have been damaged and extensively cracked during transit - see the photos below There was no obvious damage externally to the satchel, but from the damage, I would conclude that the satchel must have been dropped on a hard surface at some point, and the slabs cracked even though they were bubble-wrapped. If there's a positive note in this, there were some other slabbed pandas which survived without a scratch. Firstly, is it worth me submitting a damage claim to Auspost? As the Auspost T&C's specifically exclude carriage of bullion and coins, this is probably a non-starter, but has anyone had any success or otherwise, with an Auspost damage claim for something like this? Secondly, and more importantly, what should I do with these pandas? From a visual inspection, there are no obvious signs of damage, but since I'm pretty new to pandas, I may have missed something. Is it worth getting them re-slabbed, or is harsh treatment like this sufficient to drop the grade? If I were to send them to NGC as-is, will NGC reslab them? If they do, will they reslab them at their original grade (MS69), or will they most likely down-grade them? Or should I remove them from the slabs, and put them in standard capsules before sending them back? Or simply remove them from the cracked slabs and consider them as 2 x 1oz bullion rounds? Your advice (and commiserations) gratefully accepted. Thanks!
If you were to submit these coins back to NGC, make sure you pick Reholder option, not ReGrade. This way you can keep the 69 grade But try returning it to the seller and get a refund
Express Post platinum items are insured for $100, unless additional insurance is purchased. On the plus side it doesnt appear that the damage would have impacted the coins themselves - perhaps they can be recleaned reslabbed for a reasonable price.
If this was not a trusted ss seller and I had bought it on ebay I would be concerned about a substitution having been made. Is there anyway that the coin or the label could have been swapped out? Best of luck
I'd say it is impossible to switch out a label. Re-Holdering the coins with NGC will cost $7.50 each plus shipping there and back. Re-Holder as noted above is not a re-grade, just the holder is being replaced and that will not effect the grade. I don't know who you purchased from, but if the parcel itself showed no signs of crushing or damage, I honestly think the seller sent you these already damaged. Those kinds of breaks would not happen just from dropping the parcel. If the seller is unwilling to offer you a sizable or full refund, or pay for all of the reholdering expenses, I would file a claim with PayPal (if that is how you paid). I'm not sure you will have much luck filing a claim with the Auspost. If they operate anything like the USPS, you will actually have to forfeit the damaged coins altogether (meaning you cannot keep the coins at all) before they pay you for the claim.
I have dropped slabs before, and the only time I ever was able to crack one was when I crushed a PCGS graded half in between my safe door while closing. It was a lot of force and even then it is only a small crack in the plastic. The damage shown would require a substantial amount of force and if bubble wrapped and packaging in good condition I find it unlikely this happened during transit. JMHO
Thanks for the advice on the ReHolder option. I'll respond to the possibility of returning them to the sender in a separate thread, as several members have suggested.
As noted, these coins were purchased from an established SS member, and I have no reason to think that the coins or labels could have been swapped or tampered with. Thanks!
I paid by EFT (direct bank transfer within Australia), so a refund/claim that way is not possible. You make a good point about the possibility of having to forfeit the coins as part of a claim with Auspost. My initial thinking was that if I kept the coins, they're at least worth spot, and as Au-mageddon noted, Express Post items are insured for $100 (if they accept the claim, of course), so I'd have about $160, not much less than I paid for these two coins. But if Auspost accept the claim, but keep the coins, it's only $100. Thanks - I appreciate your advice.
I am sure a fellow silver stacker who sold you the coins would be more than happy to refund you , if the stacker that sold you them needs help re holdering them just pm me i have coins going to NGC on average twice a month and would be more than happy to help at my cost, those holders cracked like that took a good shot somehow,but IMHO the coins or labels could not come out or be substituted ........... I would like to think the coin community is a lot more trustworthy than that, ..........
Thank you to those that have offered advice and suggestions in response to my original post. Several of you have suggested asking the seller for a refund. The seller is aware of this of thread, and has read at least some of the responses so far. We have continued to correspond via PM, and the seller is adamant that the slabs were in perfect condition when they were posted. As a SS member with good trading feedback, I have no reason to doubt their claim, and I think we are both equally disappointed at the condition in which I received them. Secondly, we did not discuss or agree what would happen in a scenario like this, i.e. coins/slabs damaged in transit. This is a lesson for me, and when trading in future I'll be sure to mention this thread as an example of what can go wrong, and ensure that I agree "what if ..." terms with the other party. At this stage, I'm still thinking over whether to ask for a refund, or try claiming from Auspost, or try getting them reholdered by NGC. I'll let you know.
I would certainly submit a claim to Australian Post for damage. They are Chinese animal medals. Also worth getting them reholdered by NGC. I have sent /received close to hundred NGC/PCGS slabs via Australia Post and I haven't seen this happen. Having said this I have also seen some of the vans that carry Australian Post parcels which are packed like sardines. I wouldn't be surprised if it got crushed between two solid items. My feeling is that if no agreement was made as to damage caused by little fault from both party that the loss be shared 50-50. Best case scenario would be if compensation by Australian Post will cover the cost of NGC reholdering.
In order to be objective. We have three possible events that could've happened here: 1) seller sent perfect - buyer received damaged 2) seller sent damaged - buyer received damaged 3) seller sent perfect - buyer received perfect but damaged himself As soon as the seller claims that he sent perfect (we cannot prove otherwise), and buyer received damaged(we cannot prove otherwise) the only choice is for seller-in-good-standing either to offer coverage of half the costs for reslabbing or to get negative feedback from the buyer (which should be considered with some skepticism). Why half of the costs? Buyer could've asked for an insurance. As soon as he didn't do it - then he is also responsible for a damaging product he got. Saying that If I were a seller I'd cover half of the costs for reslabbing ... but if the seller is generous he can cover full costs of course.
Ok. Unfortunately, I'm the seller. This is my side of the story, this is my word, which I stand by. It's up to the buyer whether he believes me, and I commend him on his approach with dealing with this situation, he has been a gentleman. The slabs when I purchased them, and for the period of time I owned them, were in perfect condition. This was a very reluctant sale at under what they cost me. The reason for the sale is irrelevant, but it was not because the slabs were stuffed, because they weren't. If the slabs were cracked like that when in my possession there is no way I would have sold them to anyone. I'm not an a$$, I'm not a member of this community in order to find opportunities to rip people off. The buyer elected to use the platinum postage, and paid for that service, whether he received that service is questionable. I packed these slabs in bubblewrap and the platinum post satchel. I handed the package to the lady at the post office over the counter, as my local post office doesn't have a yellow box, so they weren't dropped by me into an empty post box. As to what happened after handing the satchel to the lady in the post office, I have no idea, and is completely out of my control or influence. It looks to me like something (very) heavy has been dropped on the package, or been runover, or swung and smashed into a wall or pole. What this has taught me: * always put photos into a sales thread in the future - back and front - of anything. I didn't do this for this sale purely because I made the post on my iphone. The buyer asked me for the NGC certification numbers, which I provided, and if I had been asked for photos, I would have taken the effort to do so as well. * agree on terms of return/exchange/insurance/disaster recovery should the unlikely occur I have offered to split the expense of getting them sent over and back to NGC and put into new holders. Thanks for reading. -noa
Thank you to noagenda33 for posting his side of the story as the seller. My intent in posting here was not to call into question the integrity of the seller, but to ask advice on how to make the best out of an unforunate situation which neither party had anticipated prior to the coins being posted. For the record, just so there's no misunderstanding, I believe what noagenda33 has posted, both here and in our PM's, and accept his word that the slabs were in perfect condition when they were posted. Further, if noagenda33 is selling stuff again that I'm interested in, and at the right price, I would be happy to purchase again from him (although as we've both noted, lessons have been learned, and we will be sure to agree terms to handle unexpected scenarios such as what's happened here :/ ). I have deliberately taken time to think through the advice and opinions offered by members here, and also tried to put myself in the position of the seller and ask what I'd do in such circumstances. Here's what I've decided on and have proposed to the seller as the best way forward: - noagenda33 has offered to split the costs of sending the coins back to NGC to be put into new holders, and I agree that this is a fair offer. - jc88888888 has kindly offered to assist in returning the coins to NGC, and I'm happy to accept his offer, as I have no experience dealing with NGC directly. - However, both noagenda33 and myself consider that Australia Post are at fault for damaging the slabs, so my intent is to submit a damage claim to Auspost, with any compensation paid to be used to cover the costs of reholdering. - If that claim fails, then I'll accept noagenda33's offer, and we'll split the costs of sending the coins back to NGC to be put into new holders. As I said above, we've both learned lessons from this, and hopefully by posting here, other stackers can learn from this too. Thanks, Whinfell
Personally I think its great to see both parties behaving with such integrity and understanding - and coming to an amicable agreement for a way forward. Well done guys!
