Bali 9! Are you for or against the execution of the 2 Bali 9 members?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by silvestor, Mar 11, 2015.

  1. silverbait

    silverbait Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Im not an Indonesian, Its a sovereign country and therefore can decide upon its laws and governing them.
    The latest issue of Bali 9 is different. There are a lot of variables in this case. Australia lost a diplomatic war if you ask me. Such a powerful US ally let its own 2 citizens being killed. Im against drugs but governments are not against drugs, they just dont want competition as most of us know. All drugs sold are very easily accessible leaves questions marks about whole border protection army and police force isnt it? Why do we need to let all these people grow produce distribute sell and kill ruins peoples lives? This is completely different story...

    Indonesia exercised its own laws and lets hope everyone gave up using drugs in Indonesia. The truth is this will not stop anyone doing the business but only push prices up. I want people to live even in prison... Killing them did nothing but harm. Their immediate families are in enormous pain now and until they pass away they will live with this bad memory...

    Thank you for this thread and again I love all human beings and we are designed to fail and make mistakes. We grow UP by recognising them so they both did recognise but there was no recognition from Indonesian government to acknowledge their growing UP process...

    Rest in Peace both Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran!!!
    You were young and in trouble of your wrong decisions but its very sad to see a lot of hate towards you, its sad to see there is about 50% Australia is happy to see you dead =(
    Nothing brings dead persons back, no matter how sorry we are, I wish they were kept alive to reflect their wrong doing and educate the young...

    All the best!
     
  2. Lunardragon

    Lunardragon Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-year-old-mule-Hong-Kong-jail-mouth-shut.html


    The OTHER evil plot by the Bali Nine kingpin: Five days before 'God-fearing' Andrew Chan was arrested, two teenage drug mules were caught in Hong Kong with heroin-filled condoms

    By Candace Sutton for Daily Mail Australia
    22:43 11 Dec 2014, updated 06:06 10 Apr 2015


    Bali Nine kingpin Andrew Chan masterminded another overseas heroin deal that went wrong
    Rachel Diaz, 17, of Sydney, was arrested with two others in a Hong Kong hotel
    Diaz, a trainee hairdresser, and Chris Vo, then 15, were due to swallow 114 heroin-filled condoms when police raided their hotel room
    Chan sent threats from Kerobokan jail to Diaz's Hong Kong prison cell, telling her to keep her 'mouth shut'
    Chan set up at least 17 young Australians who were arrest on heroin charges
    He was part of a 'predatory crime syndicate' which recruited young people as drug mules
    Chan and cohort Myuran Sumurakan face death by firing squad after the new Indonesian President rejected any chance of a pardon
    Bali Nine drug kingpin Andrew Chan, who is facing death by firing squad in Indonesia, masterminded another international heroin smuggling attempt out of Hong Kong - but the operation failed, resulting in three young Australians being jailed.

    Daily Mail Australia can reveal for the first time that Chan enlisted Sydney teenager Rachel Diaz, 17, and Chris Vo, 15, both from western Sydney, as drug couriers to smuggle $1 million worth of heroin in condoms, which they were to swallow in Hong Kong and bring back to Australia.

    The Hong Kong deal was to run at the same time as the Bali Nine operation - when Chan, Myuran Sumurakan and seven Australian mules were arrested, some with the drugs strapped to their bodies.

    It can also be revealed that after his own arrest, Chan wrote a letter to Diaz in Hong Kong, ordering her to keep her mouth shut. .......

    Read the full story.....
     
  3. havo

    havo New Member Silver Stacker

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    RIP battlers
     
  4. lynsilverbullion

    lynsilverbullion New Member

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    RIP Andrew and Myuran.

    God bless your beautiful souls, you stayed strong until the end. You were rehabilitated, but they gave you no chance to prove yourselves. You plead for mercy, but they showed you none. You vowed you would serve society, but they threw you to the firing squad. With bullets in your hearts, you were carried away in a coffin and to your graves. The world is no better place now. The war on drugs has not been won. Faith in humanity has not been restored. No. Nothing has changed. Nothing has been bettered. The only difference now is a loss of two lives, murdered by a government.

    For 10 years you were tormented by impending fear of execution. For 10 years you sweated and cried and begged - not for release, not for freedom, but to live - in jail, out of jail, you did not care - you just wanted to live. But Indonesia did not show mercy. Indonesia did not soften its heart. Indonesia callously turned its back on your tears and your pleas for mercy and your burning desire to stay alive. You exhausted every conceivable avenue for appeal. You showed tremendous will to live. But Indonesia executed you mercilessly as you sang songs whilst being led out onto the slaughter field, just past midnight on the 29th of April, while we in Australia slept peacefully in our beds.

    Andrew - you founded an orphanage in the months before your death - you did not even tell the world about it. You did not boast. What you had done in secret was founded AFTER your death. You married your beautiful fiance. You were in love. You wanted a new chance at life - even from behind prison walls. But no - your drug crime a decade ago, was held against you until the very end. Although you were a new person now, who had so much to give, and so much to teach the young about the dangers of drug crime, you were worthless to the Indonesian government. They did not value your life, your soul. They wanted you dead. And they shot you. You, and Myuran.

    RIP to the two young murdered men. Nothing can ever bring you back. Ever. What a cruel, heartless, unforgiving world this is. A world who believes not in mercy, in a second chance at life, in forgiveness. I shed tears for you both. Rest in Peace.
     
  5. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Heartfelt, thank you.
     
  6. Skyrocket

    Skyrocket Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    These two guys were NOT good people and the ONLY reason they did those apparent good things was to try to avoid their death sentence. You listen too much to our pathetic media. They were rehabilitated my ass.
     
  7. Lunardragon

    Lunardragon Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/bali-...ukumaran-and-andrew-chan-20150129-130v38.html

    Bali nine: Why I won't be lighting a candle for Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan


    "....
    ....

    Who cannot empathise with the families of both men? Who wouldn't be prepared to light a candle for all the suffering they have endured, and will continue to endure in the months and years to come? A mother is about to lose a son, brothers and sisters a loved sibling. They are entitled to mourn their loss for the rest of their lives. Many will never get over it.

    But light a candle for Sukumaran and Chan? Sorry. If you want to stage a protest against capital punishment, those opposed to state-sanctioned killing should find a new set of poster boys for the cause. There are plenty of worthy candidates lying on thin mattresses in death rows around the world with a better case to argue. Some of them are even innocent.

    Sukumaran and Chan knew the penalty if they were caught. You cannot arrive anywhere in Indonesia without signs explicitly stating the consequences of importing and exporting drugs on Indonesian soil. It is Indonesian law

    You can argue that being young and stupid shouldn't be cause for the death penalty. You can launch a sound and persuasive attack questioning the place of capital punishment in a modern civilised society. But the Bali nine controversy is equally about sovereign rights and the penalties imposed on those who decide to flout them.

    If that eight kilograms of heroin had made it back to Australia, had been cut and filtered before being distributed on the streets of Sydney's suburbs, it would have fetched millions of dollars for the drug ring's architects. Hundreds, if not thousands, of lives would have been affected.

    Had they got away with it, would Sukumaran and Chan have gone on to lead simple lives filled with redemption and remorse? Would Sukumaran have discovered a latent gift for painting and devoted the rest of his life to teaching others to express themselves on a blank canvas?

    Would Chan have surrendered his fortune, found God and spent the rest of his days selflessly extolling the Lord's word and the benefits of a saintly existence?

    Or would they, like so many others, have bought themselves a flashy home, driven a flashy car, expunged from their minds the damage their deeds may have caused so many others and gone on to reap the benefits and slap each on the back, still not quite believing they got away with such a ridiculous get-rich-quick scheme?

    Light a candle for their families, by all means. Light a candle for the loss of two human lives that could have ended so differently.

    But don't light a candle for Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan simply because they are about to be put to death by a sovereign nation following its law.

    They took their chances and they lost."
     
  8. Lunardragon

    Lunardragon Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    "
    When the days are cold
    And the cards all fold
    And the saints we see
    Are all made of gold

    When your dreams all fail
    And the ones we hail
    Are the worst of all
    And the blood's run stale

    I wanna hide the truth
    I wanna shelter you
    But with the beast inside
    There's nowhere we can hide

    No matter what we breed
    We still are made of greed
    This is my kingdom come
    This is my kingdom come

    When you feel my heat
    Look into my eyes
    It's where my demons hide
    It's where my demons hide

    Don't get too close
    It's dark inside
    It's where my demons hide
    It's where my demons hide

    At the curtains call
    It's the last of all
    When the lights fade out
    All the sinners crawl

    .... "

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWRsgZuwf_8[/youtube]
     
  9. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    @ Lunardragon and Skyrocket.

    I won't be lighting a candle for the two men killed by the State of Indonesia. I won't be lighting a candle for the fight against drugs. I won't be lighting a candle because they knew the penalties for their transgressions before they embarked on such a mission. I won't be lighting a candle for the other countless millions of lives that have died from drug abuse in the past or in the future. I won't be lighting a candle for the mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, daughters, sons, cousins and friends that have lost loved ones because of drug abuse. I won't be lighting a candle on behalf of any remorse Sukumaran and Chan or other drug dealers may have after the fact or once they have been caught. I won't be lighting a candle in favour of State sanctioned murder as justification for for any mistakes individuals choose of their own making, whether they are a supplier or user.

    I will light a candle though for others that believe that taking a life can be morally justified.
     
  10. Skyrocket

    Skyrocket Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    You are mistaken thinking I am for the death penalty because on the previous page I posted this -





    I was just saying what was the truth of the matter in my previous post.

    btw, I am not religious.
     
  11. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    @ Skyrocket, so you are suggesting that their death is justifiable self-defense?

    I think it was Locke that argued that a foreseeable threat, or in my words "imaginable threat" was not enough in itself to justify violent and precipitative action. On the other hand it must be an actual and identifiable threat in order to justify self-defense. The possible deaths of potential drug users is nothing more than an imaginable outcome, let alone that it is the sole choice of those individuals who make that decision.
     
  12. HugeMetalFan

    HugeMetalFan Member

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    The media storm around this pair was ridiculous, the "celebrity" social media backlash against the executions was as equally pathetic...

    They strapped 8kg of Heroin on themselves and others, stood over those who refused and knew exactly what they were doing. They were not good people. In my opinion anyone facing the death penalty would do their utmost to "rehabilitate" themselves. I do think they had to wait too long they say waiting is the hardest part...
     
  13. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    State sanctioned murder then is okay by you? As long as you don't pull the trigger?
     
  14. Skyrocket

    Skyrocket Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    No, you are misunderstanding me. I am against the death penalty.

    When I said "Killing someone is only appropriate if it effectively involves saving a life, example - in self defense." I am NOT talking about an "imaginable threat" or even a "perceived threat" but a real action. As in - if someone is in the act of trying to kill you and you had to kill them in order to save your life. That's what I meant by "effectively". Another example is like the police who had to shot someone dead because they were trying to kill someone. Another example is military soldiers killing enemy soldiers invading their country in times of war. That's all effectively saving a life.
     
  15. HugeMetalFan

    HugeMetalFan Member

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    Do you think that the Australian local media and citizenry have any right to dictate how a sovereign state governs their people?
    Do you think that foreign nationals should be exempt for local laws?

    All actions have consequences. For the record I am glad I live in a country that does not have the finality of the death penalty.
     
  16. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    No.

    No

    They do.

    You've avoided my question.
     
  17. Potato

    Potato Member

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    A sad day indeed.

    This is the part I can't comprehend.

    Sugar kills thousands of times as many people every year. Alcohol kills thousands of times as many people every year. But we don't execute anyone over those deaths.

    The guy speeding down the highway is putting lives in danger. But we don't execute him either.

    What makes drugs so special that we execute people over it? Drugs don't ruin people's lives. People ruin their own lives. You think if you take the drugs away these people are going to magically become lawyers and doctors and scientists? No. They'll probably just drink themselves to death.

    So really, people are okay with these 2 being executed simply because some "law" states it. Because they knew the "rules" they deserve to be executed. What a bunch of bullshit. The rule in some countries is that if you're a girl and you get raped, then you should be stoned to death. Because, hey.. she knew the rules.

    People need to think for themselves for a change. Question the laws, they weren't written by some almighty higher power. They were written by people. And people, on average, are stupid.
     
  18. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    so pay me in drugs and I will help you write those LAWs.

    just like the congress wrote many laws, 28,000 laws each year, good for you folks.

    so all you have to do is, get it enforced, while I am on the smoke pipe :lol:

    so finally I have nothing against the execution, never like to watch it, but hates catching those smuggles too.

    the firing squads or by hang in Indo is not the same,

    here where I am, the law is hang to death, if the rope broke, then get a new rope to hang; where most cases the neck breaks and there is no spill blood and air duck got cut off.
     
  19. Peter

    Peter Well-Known Member

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    It's a sign that decent people in Indonesia appreciate the anger that Australians feel at these cruel and unnecessary deaths, and it's a sign that the good and strong relationship with Indonesia can be resumed," he said when asked about the statement.


    Decent people don't make political capital from the deaths of two people.
     
  20. Clawhammer

    Clawhammer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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