I have long thought about what makes a good investment in regards to silver bullion rounds. What values does it have to ensure it is held in high steed and regarded as a numismatic peice carrying higher premiums with little to no extra effort on the mint's part? I am talking about changing the image or design in some way to diffentiate the product rather than having one design and not being able to differentiate it from a round minted 10 years earlier. See buffalos, First Majestic Mexican or NZ Silver Ferns for examples of what i mean - I have started this thread as i strongly believe if they made a subtle change such as writing the year or changed the images and kept each production to an agreed mintage before moving to the new year/ design - they could greatly increase the collectability and desirability of their rounds. A simple year change of the die should not add much value to the production cost as dies have only a useful lifetime which likely could coincide with a die change to update the date or depiction. So here it is: In your opinion, are rounds more desirable if you know what year they came out and if they had a known mintage? Do you agree this is a key factor to the second hand market of silver one ounce rounds (and 1/2, 2, 5, 10 oz)? I know Southern Cross are more stackable bars but i also tend to think this theory holds true for a company such as theres.. if this first run was limited,.. it was kinda there ALPHA run... hence this first round of mintage, IF it could be differentiated from the second and third. Would if nothing else be a good peiece of nostelgia. In contrast to this, Kookaburras and Kangaroos etc from Perth and Royal Australia Mints go out of their way to update the image and date annually (they seem to realise how this enchances the collectability and secondary market numismatic demand). Also ASE, Maples, Libertads, Panda and Britannia's all let there purchasers know that the item was minted in a specific year. Well i hope you see where im going.. Please ask if you dont understand.. 1for1
Ok, Yo, So, What i mean is, is This (^) New Zealand Silver Fern 9999 Fine Round COULD of been minted any year from 2008 til 2011 and my notion is that these would receive more praise amongest collectors and stackers alike if they simply changed/ slightly altered the die design occassionally. ie: every year and annonce the mintage.. is it just lazy or they dont have a marketing team.. maybe profit maximisation isnt there aim. Now i could offer my services and extensive marketing knowledge but first id need to know why they werent that interested in selling volumes. 1for1 Image removed due to copyright violation
A round is a round. It is not legal tender. Other than bars of greater weight, it is the cheapest way to produce 1oz of silver. The private mints do not share your sentiments. Coins are legal tender. The mintage per year, quality and distribution are governed by law. It is illegal to duplicate them, that's where your sentiment should lie. Don't get carried away, remember, we're stackers, not collectors!
LOL.. do you speak on behalf of the collective consciousness of this forum (jokes). If so isn't the very idea of a forum redundant? The Topic was more geared towards macro-economics and the optimum design to maximise revenue from a product vs sales aspect. For those who mindlessly stack youll now know what year the round was made, adding a date to the round wont effect the cost. For those who want to know what year the round was made , now they could. Hopefully this would result in no negative conesquences for anyone. You still get your cheap rounds, so do i and i can collect from the inagural to the current year mintage, and joe collector can enjoy the numismatic second hand market and study mintages etc and hope... varied images... The company would sell more have have more interest and desirability for the goods. This is just another way of adding value and providing non-price diffentiation. In a competitive market you do need to understand consumer behaviour. Silver is no exception 1for1
Well, actually... Adding a date to a round means a new die has to be produced every year - given that a decent die costs from between $1000 to $3000 (plus the artwork commissioning itself), on low production run rounds (maybe a couple of thousand NZ ferns made each year? Who knows) that could add some slight additional cost onto the round.
Hi, i was thinking the die change would coincide with the natural death of the die (but i guess it depends on productivity of the mint). The key question here is how many rounds/bars get minted before the die is useless? Your right if the die lasts longer than a annual replacement which is what i was thinking. If there was time "synergy" between the two this could work.
Yes, and the 1915 gold ducat .... I'll let you in on a little secret..... They didn't change the date for 70+ years (and counting)
Hey, yeah i got a couple of em, just like the Thaler's they are hard to resale as people find it hard to understand like the 1915 that subsequent years carry the same exact design. Just struggle with the concept and so dont go well on ebay etc. Although its a great story it dosent add premiums to these items, they both sell at close to spot as far as i know, perhaps if they had done some coin marketing the secondary market may be explosive like the Perth Mint and RAM product.
I have a buffalo round from a few years back and I have one on the way from a recent bulk buy. I wil compare them when I get them both together. It woud be a coincidence if both buffalos were made by the same company, one from eBay and one from silver stackers. I think it would be easier to charge premiums on dated items but then again... why would they make the bars if all they were interested in was a premium? This way both markets are catered for, the collector market and the market for those who just want the cheapest silver possible. I have a few of each
Rounds essentially have NO collecting value. Coins HAVE a collecting value. Pretty much simple as that.
Nothing is ever that simple ... Does my 2008 $50 Liberty Dollar count as a round or as a coin? It doesn't fit the definition of a coin, because it's not legal tender (other than being silver) and it's not issued by a govt. But I'd argue that it's highly collectible, and I place it above a PM Lunar tiger, and on par with an uncirc dragon.
That's an easy question to answer! Your Liberty Dollar is neither, it is in fact an act of domestic terrorism! It has been shown to be unwise to put a dollar amount on a private round, I don't think we will see many more of those items which confuse the issue!
Adding to the issue of the Liberty Dollar.... Many of the coins/rounds were made almost purely for the collector market anyway. They kept bringing out new varieties and accidently mixing the fronts and backs up to create "mules" which they then identified and sold at a premium. The addition of the dates and new dies were made to raise the price of the rounds. They also had several different mint marks and numbering systems hammered into the rounds to further increase the diversity of the range. All in all they had a very good marketing strategy (except the whole counterfeiting thing) which saw many of the earlier rounds exchanging hands at massive mark-ups. You do have to consider though that the Liberty Dollar and the Mint made no money on the secondry market, this was all made by collectors. It would however have kept interest and prices up in the newer editions in the hope of making similar gains.
Hi, i like this post and agree that the secondary market has been enhanced by the variety of rounds produced making them more desireable. Proberbly not the best example as this company got raided etc but in theory they practiced good marketing concepts.. just got caught out with the counterfiet currency clause ( i know i still love these rounds and wouldnt part with them). I dont buy this logic that a round is a round. There are many silver rounds to choose from. In order for us to decide we must choose which rounds we want. For a comapny to be successful the products made must be better than there competition or have some form of differentiation and if its not price. Then this subject matter is the means in which to do so. 1for1
I haven't seen this issue effect the sale price of the non-dated rounds, still fetch a premium similar to a kook for instance, however I do note that an ASE for instance will fetch a slightly greater premium as it is internationally recognizable and legal tender. I like to cycle these non tender rounds out of my stack however I do not eliminate them in a proposed deal or swap.
