Anarchism, what was your stumbling block?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by hawkeye, Jun 25, 2014.

  1. hawkeye

    hawkeye New Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,147
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    For those who have taken on the anarchism philosophy or those considering it, what is/was your stumbling block?

    Most people when considering a society without government usually come across a point where they think, "but what about x"? Where x could be roads, national defence, intellectual property, welfare for the needy, law and order, land rights, etc, etc. Most people usually have at least one thing that they can't imagine working without a central authority.

    For me, it was law and order. I just couldn't see how it would work and certainly didn't feel comfortable advocating it without knowing there was a way it could work. Then eventually I came across the work of David Friedman and I was sold. I could see a way for true justice in our society. Not perfect by any means, but far superior to what we have today. And from there it was no turning back.

    Land rights was also something I wasn't sure about for a long time.

    For those who have taken on the idea of a voluntary society (or whatever you want to call it) or even for those currently just considering it as an idea,

    What is/ or what was the stumbling block holding you back?
     
  2. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    7,773
    Likes Received:
    510
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Australia
    Anarchists = hooligans with bandanas across their faces throwing petrol bombs at the police and setting fire to cars/shops.

    At least, that is how they are portrayed in the media.

    Even neo-nazis wear suits these days but not the anarchists.

    Anarchists = Rick from the Young Ones.

    Neither is very flattering
     
  3. renovator

    renovator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Messages:
    7,414
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    QLD
    -1
     
  4. renovator

    renovator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Messages:
    7,414
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    QLD
    I have met many anarchists in my life & none look like jislizards imagination.
    I would say 50% have been average people with a different mindset ,the other half were either hippies/greenies/bikers/surfers/sportsmen-women .
    From my observations there is a mountain of people who dont like the state of things in the world & prefer to live outside the constraints of "normal" society .
    Your life your choices
     
  5. Nugget

    Nugget New Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2009
    Messages:
    4,575
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Brisbogan
    What IS my stumbling block?


    Knowing my fellow man.

    Knowing that there really are evil people out there that will commit evil acts regardless of the consequences . Knowing that there are people out there that will do evil things if they think they can get away with it.







    I spoke with someone that was in the LA Riots. He said he saw a bunch of guys riding a push bike with molotov cocktails ready to rock and roll. He claims to have seen them off at gun point and that his neighbourhood was spared.


    Anarchism IMHO relies on nut cases being kicked out of the area or strung out.







    Here's an anecdote for you all

    A guy I have to deal with on a very regular basis. VERY regular basis. Things are going great. We have a lot in common. Beers are flowing, a great time is being had by all. A common interest is firearms. I pipe up "Maybe we should go off to the local range?" I offer. "err, that's a bad idea" he says "Once I start shooting I have trouble stopping. That's why I was kicked out of XXXX army" he offers as an explanation. I wish I was joking - Hell I wish I was exaggerating
     
  6. col0016

    col0016 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,546
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Australia, Melbourne
    I don't really know what you'd replace the justice system with... Also land rights, how would land be divvied up? Would it just be a free for all where squatters could go set up fences on vast swathes of land?
     
  7. renovator

    renovator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Messages:
    7,414
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    QLD
    Quite a few ex army guys are like that . Maybe the indoctrination process they get when they enlist takes its toll.
     
  8. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    18,806
    Likes Received:
    2,124
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    昆士蘭
    Good thread hawkeye.

    The stumbling block for me was actually working out how stuff would operate under an anarcho-capitalist society. Anarcho-capitalism is such a simple system. Once I understood that it is nothing more than a society without a government (the anarchy bit) where contracts for services are awarded to profit seeking companies (the capitalist bit) which are chosen by those that actually fund and receive the service - then it all made perfect sense to me and to consider any alternative is inconceivable.

    The alternative being what we have now or worse. That is, a society where others have the legal authority to interfere in the lives of other individuals and where others have the legal authority to take the property of other individuals and use it for their own benefit. The bigger the government, the worse the situation becomes as absent landlords enslave populations hundreds and thousands of kilometres away see the Tasmanian wilderness thread .
     
  9. wrcmad

    wrcmad Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2012
    Messages:
    6,160
    Likes Received:
    321
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Northern NSW
    You replace it with the system we have today.... a legal system.
     
  10. col0016

    col0016 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,546
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Australia, Melbourne
    Yes, but if somebody kills somebody what happens? There obviously won't be tax payer funded prisons and I doubt many people would voluntarily fund them... Do you kill them? Do you have the right to kill them? Do their families?
     
  11. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    9,618
    Likes Received:
    315
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The rocks
    Sureties.
     
  12. col0016

    col0016 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,546
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Australia, Melbourne
    Feel free to elaborate Bord.
     
  13. sammysilver

    sammysilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    6,093
    Likes Received:
    731
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sydney
    What stumbling block. An anarchist does not necessary have to live outside of society. I think it's possible to ignore the norms and live above the social dictates.
     
  14. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Messages:
    12,941
    Likes Received:
    2,062
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Australia
    Anarchy failed for me because the fact is that most people are stupid and ruled by fear and greed.

    The same in essence was told to me by a member of the anarchist brigade who fought in spain. He added that we were social animals who need rules and since most humans are sophisticated animals, anarchy will always fail.
     
  15. Old Codger

    Old Codger Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 13, 2011
    Messages:
    4,936
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Could someone give me an example of a successful anarchist society?



    OC
     
  16. sammysilver

    sammysilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    6,093
    Likes Received:
    731
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sydney
    The Vatican. The CIA. The Mafia. Etc.

    To be an anarchist, you don't have to wipe out the government, you rise above it and ignore it. A lot more sophisticated than the 1960s beatnik that I was.
     
  17. sammysilver

    sammysilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    6,093
    Likes Received:
    731
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sydney
    PS.

    Silverstackers!
     
  18. Old Codger

    Old Codger Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 13, 2011
    Messages:
    4,936
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    "The Vatican. The CIA. The Mafia. Etc."


    Come off it, those three have more rules, chain of command, and punishment systems than the army!


    OC
     
  19. lucky luke

    lucky luke Active Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,871
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Qld
    excellent post hawkeye and one that has the thinkers "thinking", and the pseudo thinkers jumping to stereotypes based on a lack of thought. :)

    The "law and order" bit (which the pseudo thinkers like to direct track to ie petrol bombs, shooting, crime, rape pillage and plunder, etc) would not be absent under anarchism. There is a sense of "law and order" under almost any sort of collection of humans, and under any human society. At it's most brutal, it may simply be top dog meeting out his/her sense of justice or top dogs collectively doing this on the group. Anarchist groups/collections of people would be no different in that their would still be some sense of control.

    The attraction of anarchy to me is the depolarised nature of power. No single group or individual dominates too much. Multi-polar. Each group may not be perfect but there is the potential for individuals or small groups of individuals to perhaps choose to leave the group and either start their own or join another.

    Anarchism is far from perfect and their would be significant ongoing concerns. But what is the difference to that and what we have around the world in all the other variations of government/control? And when one compares anarchism (in any form) as an alternative to big brother world government (like "1984") I know which I would prefer!

    Thanks for your thread/post.
     
  20. sammysilver

    sammysilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    6,093
    Likes Received:
    731
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sydney
    Yes, but they are working outside of the government of the day. I don't believe anarchy needs to be a Waco style standoff or an Oklahoma City bombing, they do well enough without the public display. I guess it comes down to definition.
     

Share This Page